Matt, I see the point and I said we'd test it. What else do you want from me? I'm aware of the concerns but I'm not going to change things without any playtests and solely based on theory.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

I wouldn't say it's solely based on theory, in that 15+ activation armies are known to be a problem.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

easy Dave, I'm not having a go at you, just trying to offer constructive criticism. You know that I've helped playtest this list and I'm happy to do so in the future. I'm also far from being an expert player, so I don't regard my words as gospel. As long as you're mindful of what people are saying, as you have been in the past, I'm sure it will turn into a polished list.

I'm not upset, but after two posts of trying to convey the same thing I started to feel like it was a broken record.

It's not like you're a particularly dense individual. In comparison to Chris anyway...

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

ah ok, furry muff.

well, according to my BMI, I'm technically overweight, so I wouldn't be so sure of that comparison. As my mum says "$hit weighs heavy"

I've always been a bit of a chubby chaser so you better watch yourself, Matt. (Growl!)
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This is supposed to be a Phase III list, but I don't see a way to avoid some overlap with the existing Tyranid list. Look at most variant lists and you can field similar (or in some cases identical) lists with the core armies. Not much to be done about that.

If the Onachus list is too disparate, people will complain about it not being enough like the 9.2.1 list. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Phase III means initial landing of main battle forces, right?

Which would generally mean, nothing noticably larger than a Carnifex, and with a drop-spore emphasis... no?

This list has pretty much nothing that marks it out as being Phase III... it's just the standard NetEA list, but better, and with extra options.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

We're using info Zombo came up with as well which discludes a lot of newer units. Onachus above all needs to be very close to a 'first contact' list. Phase III is definitely my #2 goal, but I recognize some rules might not get ironed out. The spore-drop army feel, for example, might not be a practical thing to put into a tournament list. I would like it to be, but I am not convinced of its feasibility. In the end, we may end up having to put the drop ideas into various scenarios.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Right, well being as the NetEA list doesn't include any new units beyond the Hierodule, it essentially is a first contact list.

You are duplicating 95% of the NetEA list.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Breaking out the slide rule again?

Since you seem displeased with the list, what do you propose?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Don't re-invent the wheel ; Just use the NetEA list.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

This list already has significant differences with the NetEA one - e.g. the BTS among others. Also, this is an iterative process. Dave is starting from square one and coming up with the modifications a very few at a time. I doubt the final product will be a 95% duplication of effort.

If we follow the why-bother-duplication-of-effort logic, why have variant SM and CSM lists either? Even with new units, they are essentially very similar to their parent lists. They just seem very different because the approach taken was "let's change a bunch of stuff at once".

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

I don't think that's going to happen. 9.2.1 is far from an agreed upon list. Tyranids seem to be one of the elusive lists that seem like they are never going to achieve an agreed upon status (like Tau).

A variant list gives us more flexibility for picking and choosing units. You mentioned 95% being the same, but that 5% could bog down discussion for years. Also, certain units like zoanthropes are going to carry different stats because of Eldar DNA implications, blah blah blah. Add to that the possibility of the drop rule and there is no way to use 9.2.1.

Besides, you supported using a variant list in this project last year to precisely avoid development issues like I've described.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'd add that I've been operating under the assumption that this is an early contact list. Phase III options were added in because it wasn't different enough.

There's also Synapse Nodes, Vituperators, and both kinds of Heirodules in 9.2.1, which aren't in Onachus, along with mycetic spores. The White Scars achieve a different feel all while utilizing bikes with walker, and no Dreads or Devastators. We should be able to create a different feel with the differences I listed above.

Re: the its too powerful, blah blah blah, etc. It very well might be, but 0.2 hasn't even seen a game yet. What's posted is a stepping stone not the end of the line.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

As regards units this is no more a variant list than a Marine list would be if it was the same as the Codex list, only it swapped Twin Lascannon Razorbacks for Twin Plasmagun/Lascannon Razorbacks, and Hunters for Hyperios AA vehicles. It would play the same, it would have 95% the same units... it would basically *be* the same. Only veeery slightly different, just to cause confusion.

As regards special rules, this list in some ways starts again and attempts to achieve the same end (Pretty much, by definition, a re-invention of something that already exists).

As regards army list structure, it does deviate from the NetEA list, but considering its deviation allows significant "popcorning" of powerful tunneling war engines, I'm not convinced it deviates in a good way.


This is not a variant list.

It is, very clearly, a replacement list.

I am seeing no guiding precept behind its development other than "This is a general Tyranid army list".


Are, according to Chroma, destined for the chopping block.


I supported a variant list with about 50% new/different units but with identical special rules.

Not 2-3 different units, but with 50%+ different special rules.

The former is a variant list, the latter is a replacement list.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter