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Commentary on version 4.4.2

 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:31 am 
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I agree that the Crisis suits are now nerfed with droping the 30cm weapon and the MWFF . :(

They are becoming a close range troop type and not the long range force the Tau where to be .So i do not see why the that change was made .
I will have to think about it if i am going to use this version or or use 4.4.1 in the up coming games .

Regards gnurcombe


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:42 pm 
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I would consider returning the 30cm MW if people thought that it was a step too far.

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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:22 pm 
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Well, looks like we need to start working on stats for the Drone fighters... FW's last release has them available for pre-order, shipping the week of February 25.

I don't like the change to the crisis suits, myself, but without any playtest to prove one way or the other...  I still don't see the need for a 30cm Macro attack, when the Fusion Blaster is identical to a melta-gun in 40k (a FF weapon with a 12" max range, like a pistol), that attack should be AP only (plasma fire is S6 in 40k, not really capable of popping a vehicle unless you get really lucky)

I *really* don't like the dropping of the Stingrays... compare a unit of 4 Stingrays with a unit of 4 Whirlwinds (which is what I did when I built the things).  4BP gives 2 templates hitting at AP4+/AT5+ ... and unless I have completely forgotten, they're firing on Sustain, so make that AP3+/AT4+.  Two templates will cover a 10x5cm area (probably more, since I don't have a small template handy to measure), which is a measly 2-3 units in skirmish line (depending on how the templates drop), but is more like 6-8 units in an Ork/Daemon mob.  Now, those 4 Stingrays were dropping 8xAP5+/4xAT6 (sustaining at a marked Target, make that 8xAP3+/4xAT4), which is enough to cover 2 Marine dets, or really chew up some orks.  Yes, it is nasty, but that's less than 50% more capability than 4bp, and less than 8bp, when giving the target the full monty.  fire on the move against an unmarked target, and you're pretty much on par with 4bp.  Granted, because of the BP curve, Stingrays degrade differently, but one dead Stingray HALVES the firepower (suppression), while 3bp is still on tap for the WW.

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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:43 am 
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And their cost reflects it LITS.... 250 vs 300. You can also upgrade the SR's to a 6 unit formation which the WW can't do.

Try using them inside 30cm and see what happens. They are primarily an AP unit.

I've played a couple of games in the new format and they really aren't under-powered. They were a beast in the old format.


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:51 am 
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My 4.4.2 pdf has the 4 Stingray Support Group @ 225 points?

That aside I would agree with Dobbsy.  I gave serious thought to using Stingrays instead of Scorpionfish.

In the end I chose flexibility and resiliance over greater total firepower and markerlights.  But it was a close choice.

What Stingrays don't do that Whirlwinds (and other BP artillery) do is encourage the enemy to spread out their formations.  The psychological factor that comes with template weapons.

I would argue that the ignore cover ability is what makes them far more deadly than standard artillery, removing cover saves can effectively double the firepower against some unit types (IG infantry in a building).


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:43 am 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Jan. 29 2008,22:22)
QUOTE
Well, looks like we need to start working on stats for the Drone fighters... FW's last release has them available for pre-order, shipping the week of February 25.

Do we really need this as a core unit? I suspect that this will require yet more special rules, and will further increase the air power of the list (which doesnt need improving at this stage) and give us yet another unit to test and balance.

My initial though is to have something as good as we can for section VI.

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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Hi again

I hope you can give the Crisis suits back thier 30cm Plasma Rifle . They do need it

Thanks gnurcombe


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:07 pm 
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Hi again

For those who think the Fire warrior's are broken might i suggest up thier range to 45cm. :D

That way they can stand up to other Infantry in a long range FF  . Which they have trouble doing now with thier 30cm range.

Also put the Marker light range up to 45cm as well . :D

Just some food for thought.

Regards gnurcombe


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:14 pm 
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CS- I agree. I'd prefer we don't add the drone fighters at all. We have enough units as it is without more being added. People already think we have too many....

gnurcombe - Fire Warriors work fine at 30cm (what infantry can charge 30cm to engage?) and if we make MLs 45cm they will be broken.


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:24 pm 
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CS, is there any more thought to pruning other formations from the current Tau list? This plus the units that keep getting pumped out by FW would leave more room for other Tau lists to expand and develop on their own.  I know this had come up off and on in the past and met with some mixed support.  Just curious as to what (if any) formations/unit types you could see the main Tau list losing.

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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:29 am 
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Just out of interest Mosc, what's your reasoning behind pruning the Tau list?

I'd like to prune the Vespids from the list, personally.


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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:03 am 
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I dont think that any large scale pruning is necessary at this point. I have no immediate plans to drop any units, but I am very hesitant to add any, either. Variant lists could use whatever new technology comes out, and represent further develpment of the Tau war machine.

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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:06 pm 
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My thinking is by taking units away from the core Tau list, another variant Tau list could feature those units in their list and give it character.  That's all.

Human auxilliaries come to mind for example.  While they certainly CAN be part of the Tau army, do they NEED to be part of the core army?  Balancing them against Firewarriors always seems to be a complaint anyway (one is always getting short changed over the other it seems).  Leave the human auxilliaries out of the core list and you have solved two problems! :)

I honestly have been away from the Tau for some time so this might be the only one that I could come up with.  But other items that we are having difficulty balancing might be good candidates as well.  Drop them from the list and leave them for another time or a variant list.

Does that make sense?

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 Post subject: Commentary on version 4.4.2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:13 pm 
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To take up Moscovians proposal the variant list could be a mixture of the Kleistan list and the normal TAU units. This leaves this list to use mixed army parts, which could be characterful. And the core list has one problem solved.

And for sure a limitation of the upgrade choices for several formations will lead to more specialized resolutions, which is a good thing imho.

And maybe you delete the sentries. I dislike the way they work.





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