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Necron Army list

 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:30 pm 
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Gauss rule looks good - I'd probably explicitly add 'Gauss' as a rule, rather than rely on names, but that's a style thing ;)

CAF looks about right - Necrons in 40k basically have Marine stats, but lower initiative. So, slightly less CAF than marines I would expect.

5-man detachments do sound quite small, considering that a single warrior squad in 40k is 20 models. So, a full 40k Force Org chart (which is roughly a company) could include 120 Necron Warriors, which is about 24 stands worth...more likely, it would be something like 40-60 warriors (or about 8-12 stands).

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:52 am 
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Ok, if a squad is 20, then we could make a detachment 4 stands (20) and a company 4 detachments + a 4 stand command section (100).  Gives a decent 10 break....not too big with Regen...and we could carry forward the "4's of 4" theme throughout?

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Sounds logical :)

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:12 am 
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Ok, here goes:

Knights

C'tan Nightbringer ?10cm 1+ +12 - - - - - ?Inorganic, Living Metal, Command, Skimmer, Wounds 10, Special *

* The Nightbringer has 10 wounds and these may be repaired with the Living Metal ability. ?However, you may only ever make one attempt per wound; if it is failed that wound becomes permanent and you may not attempt to repair it again in subsequent turns. ?If the C'Tan is defeated in Close Combat it takes a number of wounds equal to the difference in the scores.

Should the Nightbringer end a turn with no remaining wounds after all Living Metal attempts, its Necrodermis explodes spectacularly. ?All units within 3D6 are hit on a 4+ at -2 TSM.

The Nightbringer may use one of the following Psychic powers once per turn:

- Gaze of Death: ?Place a 6cm Barrage template anywhere within LoS of the Nightbringer. ?Any unit more than half covered by the template is hit automatically with a -3TSM. ?A multi-wound creature will take D6 wounds. ?This is a physical psychic attack

- Etheric Tempest: ?Place the large 12cm barrage template centred on the Nightbringer. ?All Vehicle class units and smaller are pushed to the edge of the template. ?If a unit is pushed into another unit both must make a basic save. ?If a unit is pushed into impassable terrain it is destroyed. ?This is an etherial psychic attack.

C'tan Deceiver ?10cm 1+ +10 - - - - - ?Inorganic, Living Metal, Command, Skimmer, Wounds 8, Special *

* The Deceiver has 8 wounds and these may be repaired with the Living Metal ability. ?However, you may only ever make one attempt per wound; if it is failed that wound becomes permanent and you may not attempt to repair it again in subsequent turns. ?If the C'Tan is defeated in Close Combat it takes a number of wounds equal to the difference in the scores.


Should the Deceiver end a turn with no remaining wounds after all Living Metal attempts, its Necrodermis explodes spectacularly. ?All units within 3D6 are hit on a 4+ at -2 TSM.

The Deceiver is aptly named, and its greatest power may well be the Grand Illusion. ?After both armies are fully setup, the Necron player may attempt to re-arrange the deployment of his units. ?Pick a unit and on a D6 result of 2 or better the player may reposition that unit to a new location, still bound by normal army placement rules. ?For each subsequent unit selected subtract 1 from the die roll (so with good rolls a maximum of 6 units/detachments can be redeployed).

The Deceiver may use one of the following Psychic powers once per turn:

Deceive - target 1 unit within LoS. ?That unit must make 2 morale saves in succession. ?Tyranid units must make Hive Mind checks.

Missdirect - this power must be used at the beginning of the Close Combat phase when the Deceiver is engaged by enemy units. ?The Deceiver leaves the close combat, moving 5cm back toward its deployment zone. ?The Deceiver is no longer engaged and there are no other effects.





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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:17 pm 
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Hi Zap,

I've been thinking of the Necrons for some time now, glad to see you are in charge on the subject. Here are my thoughts:

- C'tan should be roughly equivalent to Greater Daemons, maybe slightly stronger but not by much (On one hand they are Gods - or at least avatars - but on the other we should need some playability here...)

- I think the number of stands per unit should resolved around the number 6 for Necrons, at least for infantry. Why 6, do you ask? Well, because most "old" lists resolve around this number (Space Marines, Eldar guardians, etc.) 10 seems too much for an "elite" basic warrior, 5 is odd, 4 too low for basic troops. Perhaps 8 either, as it would lack versatility.

- I like your Phase Out idea and came with the same in mind. Perhaps Necrons should not have any morale value, but just a 3+ Phase Out value. The same way Tyranids have an Hive Mind Value and no Morale value per se. They would never receive a Fall Back order.

We should think of how much Tyranids score VP when facing Necrons too.

- I thought of the Portal ability for Monoliths and such. It should basically be a "Super-transport": one unit should be able to embark on any unit with the Portal special ability, and disembark from any unit with the Portal special ability (maybe several times a turn, even if such behaviour is pointless.) When embarking, a unit should be off-table and may stay there as long as the Necron player wishes, but if all Portal units are destroyed, all off-table units count as destroyed (awarding VP, no we'll be back, etc.)
(Well, you get the idea but I think wording could be better  ;o) )

- Perhaps the "Gauss" effect of the Necron guns could simply be translated in a -1 mod? It's quite powerful for a basic weapon (think of shields, and the 1 on 6 failure possibility for all those 1+ save tanks...) A weaker possibility would be "against a gauss weapon, a saving roll of 1 always fail".

- Living Metal: all Penetrating +X weapons lose this ability against a Living Metal unit.

- Perhaps the We'll be back could simply be a 5+ or a 4+ fixed save. It would save loads of bookkeeping (no stands to put on side) and roughly give the same result (there is no HtH save anyway, fixed or not.)

- Since Necron Warriors are really the core of Necron armies, I think all infantry-based Company cards should include 3 detachment with a free lord, but with at least one of the detachment made of Necron warriors. Maybe two?

Your thoughts?

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:15 am 
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- Yeah, I tried to make the C'Tan roughly equivalent to a GD or perhaps a combination of two.  Had to find some way to replicate the "that didn't hurt" ability of GDs so hence multi-wounds.  They are better than a GD as written, but not by a whole lot.  I'm guessing they will also be unique, never more than 1 in an army, and probably 450-500 points.

- Well, both 5 and 4 are also common detachment sizes.  As Yogo pointed out 20 is a squad in 40K so detachment size of 4 is a match.  

- Yeah, that's not a bad idea to balance it out.  I guess Tyranids would have to get the double points if they force a company to Phase out, making Necron vs. 'Nid games interesting :)

- Yeah, I looked at how the Monoliths are treated in E:A. I think perhaps we could give the Monoliths a larger transport capacity to represent the portal.  We could give them an ability as you describe but it would be hyper powerful and be very hard to cost into an army.  We would have to make all infantry very expensive just on the off chance that they use the Portals ( or perhaps make the Monoliths stupidly expensive.....they'd have to be 375-450 points each based on existing units).

- I think the current Gauss mechanic is neater.

- Why would Living Metal negate Penetrating X ?

- That's good idea.  A fixed save across the board is much neater.  Perhaps not quite as cool as "regeneration", but fairer too, and it would mean we wouldn't have to make the units quite as expensive.

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:08 pm 
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I've started a mail-heavy discussion with Zap. We'll keep you informed.

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:19 am 
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One suggestion is that rather than a "regeneration" type ability all Necrons just get a fixed 5+ save in addition to normal saves to represent their ability to self repair.  In many ways this is a neater and simpler way of doing things, and removes one of the big (i.e potentially unbalancing) advantages of Regen.  This should in turn make Necrons easier to cost accurately.

What do people think?

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:36 am 
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Another suggestion is to make the "magic number" for Necron detachments 8.  The good side is it is unique and will add some tactical inflexibility to the Necrons.

One downside may be costs of units.  If we compare a Necron Warrior stand with say Guardians, you would arguably have to figure their cost is around 40 points a stand.  If we assume a basic Necron company is 3 detachments of Warriors + a Lord it would need to cost around 1200+ points.  (24 units * 1.33 to cater for Regen = 32*40 + Lord, minus any company discount.).

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:53 am 
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Third suggestion is that each Monolith has a Portal and Necrons can zip between portals (and offboard) at will. ?E.G. a Necron detachment "enters" one Monolith and can "reappear" at any other Monolith.

One possible modification to this might be to impose a turn delay like the Eldar Storm Serpent, and similar risks.





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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:43 am 
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Hi Zap, thank you for posting our proposals!

I suggest the fixed save for the sake of simplicity. A regeneration roll in the End phase causes plenty of annoyances (unit coherency - are the downed necrons still targetable? Can you stack on them? And so on) and it boils down to the same thing.

I suggested 8 as the "magic number" for Necron Warriors (this point is important) because it's a power of 2 and thus sounds rather "mechanical". In W40K list, Necron warriors are 10-20 a unit, which is very high (Space Marines are 5-10). Moreover, since Necrons don't have attached transports such as Rhinos and Falcons, they'll have pure infantry companies and the base number needs to be high enough to create a sufficient number of stands for a company (8*3 +1 lord = 25)
I can accept a magic number of 6 too, makes companies 19 stands, but certainly not any lower. I don't know if a Necron warrior is worth 40 pts though.

Finally, I proposed the Portal ability in lieu of Transport just to reflect the Necron's unmatched ability to redeploy. This being said, Necron is in essence a shooty list and the Portal ability should not give them a too powerful edge.

Well, I'll wait for a round of comments now... :;):

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:01 am 
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I'd like to stick pretty strictly to cannon units here, but one gap I think it would be useful to plug is the lack of Knight/Superheavy class units.  I would think a knight of some description would be ok...it's basically a Necron writ large as they are metal constructs anyway, and it would be easy to proxy for :D.  However, there does seem to be a predeliction for skimmer type units once you get away from the basic infantry, so perhaps a Superheavy version of the Monolith might be in order (or indeed we could make the Monolith superheavy.....how does the 40K version compare size-wise with teh new Baneblade?).

???

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:46 am 
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The monolith itself is taller than a Baneblade (maybe an extra 25%?), but probably about 2/3 the footprint. Given how resillient a Monolith is, treating it as a Superheavy might well make sense, even if it is at odds with the 40k version.

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:55 am 
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OK, Monolith is a Superheavy :)

I kinda like the concept of an army with no vehicles, and it suits the Necron IMO.  How do we feel about giving them a Knight style unit as well?

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 Post subject: Necron Army list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:11 pm 
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(zap123 @ Nov. 07 2007,06:18)
QUOTE

zap, do you know where to get necron and tau models? have they been produced by GW?


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