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SG Article Marine Units
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:31 pm 
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I think the Crusader should be a serious option for core Codex chapters - it has long ago ceased to be a BT-specific vehicle, and the current C:SM has no restrictions on it. It should be a Codex vehicle, IMO, at least for "house rules".


Most FW vehicles (Like the Helios for example) are also not Chapter-specific gear at this point.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:37 pm 
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Okay, here's a rough list thrown together. I've done this from memory, so let me know if there are any obvious errors (I can't remember the Prometheus' transport capacity, for example).

I've not included Scout Bikers and Veterans since they're already in a FOL article.

Also note for comparative purposes, I've assumed a normal Land Raider's FF to be 4+.

EDIT: and - since I'm just playing here - I've tweaked the LR Crusader the way I'd have it!  :p

Here you go:
http://geocities.com/eoinwhelan/SMvehicles.htm
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:43 pm 
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I note you've tweaked the points cost of the Transporter a little too. :)

Looks nice!




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:58 pm 
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Like you units stats too :) But not sure about the transport capacity of some of these, too.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:09 am 
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Unless we rename the 'Multimelta' on a Crusader to 'Pintle Multimelta'.  Either way works, I'd just prefer to see the renamed version.

I'm OK with that list, Lord =I=.  BlackLegion, those transport capacities are right in line with the 40k stats.  My only quibble is the Damocles, as I think it should have something more than just 'Leader'.  What exactly, I'm not sure, but it needs something.

I can live with the FO76 Marine upgrades, and a reference to them in our article would be fine (or some tweaks to them for balance, if needed, like those Librarian rules).

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:14 am 
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If it's not enough, you're in trouble.

I must have missed the dread stats.  

Like I said, it doesn't really matter, and most of the LRCs I've seen have only had the Multimelta, without a pintle stormbolter (the usual source of FF attacks on Marine vehicles).  I suppose for consistency we should have every MM change the FF attack to Macro.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:45 pm 
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I suppose for consistency we should have every MM change the FF attack to Macro.


I think that's appropriate.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:59 pm 
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The Thunderhawk Transporter's points is - after much uming and ahing - back to what I originally proposed to begin with. I certainly don't see any reason to make a discount price for two.

"Only thing that sticks out is the +1EA on multimelta. That shouldn't be EA, but change the original hit into MW. "

Yeah, I see the point here. However, it is much neater than the alternative - it would be confusing: so does the multi-melta give an extra attack, give MW to only the basic attack, or give all of the attacks MW?

I did something similar with my Slaanesh Daemon Prince and it was confusing. Modifiying the basic attack but not the extra attacks just looks... wrong.

But, if we go back to only +1 for the hurricane bolters, and give the MW an extra attack, it averages out (i.e. 1MW and 2 normal attacks).

The reason the tank has quite so many attacks is because it's that shooty in 40k! Twelve bolters, two assault cannon and a multimelta!

Still, I agree, 4 attacks is too much, I was thinking that yesterday.

SO:

- I'll remove one of the EA from the Hurricane Bolters
- I'll rename the multimelta "pintel multimelta"

I'll edit the stats when I can.

I was thinking of giving the command tanks "Commander", but I don't think that's quite appropriate. I think Leader is okay, but I'm open to suggestions. EDIT: The problem with Commander is that there isn't any reason to take a Captain, since you can get the Commander ability from the tank and take a more attractive Librarian or Chaplain.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:06 pm 
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I think commander is very appropriate for the command tanks. :)


I'd be tempted to keep the Dreadnought's FF at 4+ too... it's very hard to get to use that slow-moving attack.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:15 pm 
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Nearly all my MM equipped Salamanders units have their FF-Value worsened by 1.
There was some discussion about it overthere in SG-Forums.

http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/t ... IC_ID=8014




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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:21 pm 
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As I said in my sneaky edit, my main concern is that Commander makes Captains totally redundant.

I really don't like the idea of a single multi-melta giving FF4+! Besides, the only time I see dreads is in Thunderhawks, where I'd pick a melta dread over an assault cannon one as the range isn't a factor.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:27 pm 
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(Lord Inquisitor @ Oct. 12 2006,15:21)
QUOTE
I really don't like the idea of a single multi-melta giving FF4+! Besides, the only time I see dreads is in Thunderhawks, where I'd pick a melta dread over an assault cannon one as the range isn't a factor.

Ah but I play with Dread Formations where they're a little more common (Still pretty damn rare though).

Still, FF5+ isn't such a bad thing.


As I said in my sneaky edit, my main concern is that Commander makes Captains totally redundant.


Then how about looking to the 40k rules for extra features... don't command vehicles in that provide the ability to use Imperial Navy support with Marine armies?

So how about taking a Command vehicle lets you re-roll one Inititive roll for an Imperial Navy formation per turn?

I can't remember their other rules offhand.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: SG Article Marine Units
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:31 pm 
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Why don't give the Damocles SupremeCommander but that there could be still another SupremeCommander in the army with the exception that BOTH can us their SupremeCommander ability?

Else it would make a neat model for the Blitz Objective :D

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