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What would you change?
dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:14 pm 
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Oh my, I posted this thread last night and it already has three pages!   :o    :oo

I had better get to reading.  :laugh:

dafrca

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:18 pm 
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Just to be a real pain I also sometimes wonder why we needed the Tyranids. While I know that they've got a large fan base I just never really got into them (I still haven't got an army either).

I like the original lineup:

IG: Large cheap formations with lotsa firepower but bad at CC
Marines: Specialized Mechanized force with reasonable CC and firepower but few in numbers -The allrounders
Chaos: CC army
Orks: Large numbers, good CC and unpredictable firepower
Eldar: Specialized force. Very mobile with great CC and ffirepower. Very fragile though.

                            CC oriented        Both       Firepower oriented
Cheap Troops           Orks                                          IG
Both                                          Chaos, Squats
Expensive troops                         Eldar, Marines

You sort of had these generic niche armies which suited a broard style of play. You could tailor your army for a special theme if you wanted.
When the 'nids arrived they sort of invaded the Ork and Chaos niche I think.
The problem nowaday is that people want every race to be able  to do everything. Like the Elysian Drop Troops which is basically a touched up more realistic version of the Space Marines, Iron Warriors who are Chaos trying to be Imperial combined arms etc. Basically every race suddenly have to have a list which suits every style of play. I don't know iif that is a good or a bad thing but I sometimes long back to the days when things were simpler...

Cheers! :)

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dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:13 pm 
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Wow, that was a fun read. Now that others have said what they would change, here is my take:

I would have also toned down the Tech Lost focus. It just flies in the face of some of the other stuff. We can?t fix a tank gun any more, but we can maintain jump jets?

I would either make the Emperor a Chaos god in secret or dump the whole ?I eat souls? thing. One way or the other.

Not make the Imperium the whole of Humanity. The Imperium would just be one part. It would be the focus as far as the ?starting point?, but there would be other Humans out there.

I would make Orks slightly smarter, slightly more advanced. Keep the overall feel they have now, not the clown feel that they once had. They would be more like less high tech Klingons in my world.

Space Skaven would be cool. I think this would be fun to do.

Change the focus on the Marines. Return to Rogue Trader days where the Marines were just one of the many different armies. Return them to the Marine Role. Quit trying to make them into a ?different? IG.

Return the whole Rogue Trader as explorer/conquer of the Imperium. Sort of, 19th century Colonial Forces meets Star Wars. Even return to the day when they could have Marines assigned to them. I think GW has forgotten their roots, I would return there.

Sisters would be more like Marines, less like IG with slightly better weapons. The whole religious thing is not bad, just should not be the only focus.

Gene Stealers and the Cult would come back. GS would NOT be folded into the bugs.

Squats never went away. I would tone down the drunken biker image though. Let them become the Dwarves of Space they are.

I would bring back the IG as the catch all for those who wish to serve. Thus, Beastmen would be welcome. Penal Troops will be used. Human Bombs would show up again.

Tech is not selective in my world, so IG and Marine Jet Bikes would show up again, so would IG Land Speeders. Marines would be using the same equipment for the most part. IG will still have Rhinos.

Well, that is it for now. I will post if I think of anything more.

dafrca

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 14 2005 June,19:18)
You sort of had these generic niche armies which suited a broard style of play. You could tailor your army for a special theme if you wanted.

The problem nowaday is that people want every race to be able ?to do everything. Like the Elysian Drop Troops which is basically a touched up more realistic version of the Space Marines, Iron Warriors who are Chaos trying to be Imperial combined arms etc. Basically every race suddenly have to have a list which suits every style of play. I don't know iif that is a good or a bad thing but I sometimes long back to the days when things were simpler...

I see that the Warmaster and I are in agreement!  :p  I do kind of miss the days when things were simpler. The army lists had enough variety for players to create armies with different themes.

I also agree with Dafrca in that GW has forgotten its roots. I would be in favor with most, if not all, of the changes he has proposed.

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primarch
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:33 pm 
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Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 14 2005 June,10:34)
What about space-skaven?

:D

Cheers

James

Hi!

Ya know there are several people on thenetpeic list that have suggested just that.

If we followed the GW fantasy races, they'd be the ones missing in the 40k universe.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:35 pm 
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Quote (Xavi @ 14 2005 June,10:36)
Marine chapters would be 15,000-100,000 strong. Legions would contain several million space marines. The current numbers for SM chapters are just plain stupid, no matter how superhuman they are. If I had a SM invasion of my world, I would simply make sure most of the chapter has landed before sending a few nukes at them. pretty easy way to whipe them out for the cost of only a few trillion civil population ???? And voil?, the blood angels suddenly do not exist anymore.

I would make the storiline MOVE, but not like the poop of the eye of terror campaign, but really move forward. They have moved the storyline 3 years in 30 years of gaming. Great.

I would sack gav thorpe from GW as well, but that is an other matter.

Heath and sixes,

Xavi

Hi!

This is probably one of those things that irks me the most. There is NO WAY given the attrition they suffer and recovery of geneseed that they can maintain a empire so vast with one million SM. One BILLION I can believe.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:36 pm 
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Quote (netepic @ 14 2005 June,10:44)
I am sure there is a Hrudd list kicking about... did the Hordes of Evil ever make into NE5?

Hi!

I dont think so. We only wanted armies with actual models. Thus Necrons didnt make it either.

Primarch

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dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:41 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 14 2005 June,14:33)
Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 14 2005 June,10:34)
What about space-skaven?

:D

Cheers

James

Ya know there are several people on thenetpeic list that have suggested just that.

If we followed the GW fantasy races, they'd be the ones missing in the 40k universe.

Yep, that is also why I think the Dark Eldar made it into 40K. They were heading toward the complete "Warhammer" list of Aliens.

dafrca

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dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:44 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 14 2005 June,14:35)
Quote (Xavi @ 14 2005 June,10:36)
Marine chapters would be 15,000-100,000 strong. Legions would contain several million space marines. The current numbers for SM chapters are just plain stupid, no matter how superhuman they are. If I had a SM invasion of my world, I would simply make sure most of the chapter has landed before sending a few nukes at them. pretty easy way to whipe them out for the cost of only a few trillion civil population ???? And voil?, the blood angels suddenly do not exist anymore.

I would make the storiline MOVE, but not like the poop of the eye of terror campaign, but really move forward. They have moved the storyline 3 years in 30 years of gaming. Great.

I would sack gav thorpe from GW as well, but that is an other matter.

Heath and sixes,

Xavi

Hi!

This is probably one of those things that irks me the most. There is NO WAY given the attrition they suffer and recovery of geneseed that they can maintain a empire so vast with one million SM. One BILLION I can believe.

Primarch

I do not have strong feelings either way. Tons of small chapters or fewer larger chapters. Either way, it is a case of mass vs. attrition.

I do agree, I have never bought into the 1,000 only background. But I did not care if it was 50,000 or 500,000.

dafrca

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dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:45 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 14 2005 June,14:36)
Quote (netepic @ 14 2005 June,10:44)
I am sure there is a Hrudd list kicking about... did the Hordes of Evil ever make into NE5?

Hi!

I dont think so. We only wanted armies with actual models. Thus Necrons didnt make it either.

Primarch

So that means there is no Dark Eldar in Net Epic either.  ???

Not that I think we need another Chaos driven psyco army.  :;):

dafrca

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primarch
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:48 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 14 2005 June,18:44)
Quote (primarch @ 14 2005 June,14:35)
Quote (Xavi @ 14 2005 June,10:36)
Marine chapters would be 15,000-100,000 strong. Legions would contain several million space marines. The current numbers for SM chapters are just plain stupid, no matter how superhuman they are. If I had a SM invasion of my world, I would simply make sure most of the chapter has landed before sending a few nukes at them. pretty easy way to whipe them out for the cost of only a few trillion civil population ???? And voil?, the blood angels suddenly do not exist anymore.

I would make the storiline MOVE, but not like the poop of the eye of terror campaign, but really move forward. They have moved the storyline 3 years in 30 years of gaming. Great.

I would sack gav thorpe from GW as well, but that is an other matter.

Heath and sixes,

Xavi

Hi!

This is probably one of those things that irks me the most. There is NO WAY given the attrition they suffer and recovery of geneseed that they can maintain a empire so vast with one million SM. One BILLION I can believe.

Primarch

I do not have strong feelings either way. Tons of small chapters or fewer larger chapters. Either way, it is a case of mass vs. attrition.

I do agree, I have never bought into the 1,000 only background. But I did not care if it was 50,000 or 500,000.

dafrca

Hi!

The Heresy Era organizations were a lot more realistic. SM legions of 50k+ would be a lot more beleiveable.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:49 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 14 2005 June,18:45)
Quote (primarch @ 14 2005 June,14:36)
Quote (netepic @ 14 2005 June,10:44)
I am sure there is a Hrudd list kicking about... did the Hordes of Evil ever make into NE5?

Hi!

I dont think so. We only wanted armies with actual models. Thus Necrons didnt make it either.

Primarch

So that means there is no Dark Eldar in Net Epic either. ????

Not that I think we need another Chaos driven psyco army. ?:;):

dafrca

Hi!

We cheated with the DE, dont know why. They ARE in 5.0, but then again they've been around in some form since 4.0.

Primarch

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Legion 4
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:40 am 
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I'm all for Tau, Necrons, 'Nids, Hrudd, and any other aliens !  It's all good ! And we kept IG with Rhinos !  IG has the options of Rhinos, Gorgons, Chimeras or Tunnelers. :D  The Dark Eldar, More G/W goofy fluff ... we just use Eldar that have turned to the dark side !  No Avatar but the G/Deamon of Slann !  :o  The Gothic stuff isn't to bad, but some of it, is a bit over the top ! ???

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dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:41 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 14 2005 June,14:48)
The Heresy Era organizations were a lot more realistic. SM legions of 50k+ would be a lot more beleiveable.

So I could buy into 50,000 per chapter. THat would make sense to me. 1,000 just sounds so low.  :oo

So I guess another thing for my list would be to return Chapter sizes to Pre-Heresy levels.

dafrca

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dafrca
 Post subject: What would you change?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:42 am 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 14 2005 June,21:40)
The Dark Eldar, More G/W goofy fluff ... we just use Eldar that have turned to the dark side ! ?No Avatar but the G/Deamon of Slann ! ?:o ?

That is what they should have done in 40k too. They did not need all those minis.

dafrca

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