Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... |
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...  Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:21 am |
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Hi Peter,
Primarch: True Maksim, it does not differentiate. I remember one debate with Kenneth Peters with whom I created the original game and my main beef with two separate stats is adding needless mechanics. I found that one unififed stat was just as good and created the right effect. |
The two are related, but I do see troop quality and troop morale as two different things.
E-A has troop quality ingrained into unit stats and uses BMs to indicate morale.
Primarch: Then again, DS-II is the only game I can remember at this scale for sci-fi that even attempts to address morale and unit quality. While not perfect, it's pretty good. |
It is laudable for a 6mm sci-fi game, but there are some wonderful morale and troop quality systems availible from microarmor, Napoleonic and ancients games...
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:41 am |
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Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.
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Does anyone remember the computer game Close Combat? From Microsoft? It is the only game that I can remember that I felt like the troops actually acted 'accordingly'. You would have alot that would dig in under fire, refuse to move, or simply break and run away. And then you would have the occasional hero, who would charge the enemy and lead his men to victory! That game tracked EVERY bullet, wound, casualty, etc, and factored them all in. Very nice.
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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Markconz
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 2:05 am |
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| Purestrain |
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Location: New Zealand
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| Quote (iblisdrax @ 31 2005 May,00:41) | Does anyone remember the computer game Close Combat? ?From Microsoft? ?It is the only game that I can remember that I felt like the troops actually acted 'accordingly'. ?You would have alot that would dig in under fire, refuse to move, or simply break and run away. ?And then you would have the occasional hero, who would charge the enemy and lead his men to victory! ?That game tracked EVERY bullet, wound, casualty, etc, and factored them all in. ?Very nice.
my 2cents,
iblisdrax |
Yep it was well done... although I often had difficulty with the terrain and telling whether or not I was actually getting cover from it - especially with the hills etc.
Also the historical nature of it could make it very frustrating to play... like the Eastern Front scnearios early on as Russians ... or later on as Germans 
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dafrca
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:44 am |
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At the sake of painting a target on my back, I want to say something about the "need" to import rules from other systems.
One of the truest games I have ever seen for "realism" had details for weapon, skill, condition of weapon, weather, wind (yes seperate), ammo load, fatigue count of shooter, etc. It took us more then 10 min. to play out one shot. We sold the game on our junk table at the next con.
In our desire for "realism" in a game, let's not loose sight of playability. I would be very sad to be playing a game where both my opponents and my troops both ran because some "moral" chart said so. Talk about a bore. 
One of the reasons that many games either have little extra rules for moral or even ignore it is for the same reason most of our armies have "Full" TO&Es or why we allow Orks and Eldar on the field. We play these games for fun and not for "Realism".
OK, now that my rant about balance between rules and playability is over, please return to your rules addition talk. 
dafrca
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:48 am |
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Well, I liked DSII (we even used a modified version in one iteration of our hybrid rules !), but I thought the Infantry rules were a bit limited (as Maksim said). My take on Epic is reality-centric, but certain things are going to be skewed, because it is Sci-fi. But a Sci-fi gaming that is to goofy/silly is not fun to me. So my point of "balance" may be different than most ... Realism, playability and all the other things that make a "good" game are a matter of taste as well. And as pointed out, fighting to the death happens historically, but it certainly isn't sign of good planning, etc. ... unless you are in the Japanese Army of WW2 !!
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:18 pm |
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We play these games for fun and not for "Realism".
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I have to agree with dafrca on this point. When I want to play a game with a high realism factor, I trot out my cardboard warriors and play Advanced Squad Leader. Personally speaking, the level of complexity in epic up to SM/TL, especially the relatively simplistic morale rules, is just fine by me. I have PLENTY of complex wargames in my closet (ASL, Third Reich, Panzerblitz etc, etc) and I have no desire for epic to be as complex and "realistic" as those games.
This is just my opinion, but I do understand why others want a more "realistic" game, as seen in the Heresy rules (which seems like a fine game, but I probably won't ever play it.)
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dafrca
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:20 am |
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| Quote (vanvlak @ 31 2005 May,09:24) | | Quote (nealhunt @ 31 2005 May,18:17) | | Well, darnit. ?I didn't see nids until after I hit the vote button, so move one of the Khorne votes to Nids. |
Not to worry Neal, they're doing well enough as it is... ? I did expect this result, but not on this scale! |
Interesting, how did you see the votes go?
I think that the other armies are seen as CC but they also have a shooty aspect. On the other hand most folks think of the bugs as C and seldome think of them as shooting army.
dafrca
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the... Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:41 am |
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Well, Dafrca, I expected the Nids to win, but not as heavily; I expected more competition from fast moving Speed Freak, Blood Angel, Space Wolf and Khornate armies - in the end, the latter were the only competition. All of these 'contenders' are actually themes, whilst the bugs are just bugs (GS cults aside!). I omitted the equally themed Aspect Warrior army as the Eldar shooty bits are just too good to ignore! (comments?) I'd also say the bugs' 'advantage' is that a vast horde of gribblies swamping an area of board and rushing towards you is too strong an image! Anyway, that's how I see them I guess Maksim's large troop content army fits this - right?
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