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Thousand Sons List

 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:50 pm 
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The legless hula dancer... ?how very... um... creative of you. :D

Seriously, I actually like it better than I did when you described the concept. ?Seeing it I could could see a good paint job making it look good.

I'd still prefer to get something a little more like a real gun platform, though.





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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:50 am 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 09 2005 Feb.,22:50)
The legless hula dancer... ?how very... um... creative of you. :D

Seriously, I actually like it better than I did when you described the concept. ?Seeing it I could could see a good paint job making it look good.

I'd still prefer to get something a little more like a real gun platform, though.

Ah well, at least I'm fast.... :p Ummm - guns, eh? *thinks*

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:14 pm 
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Congrats on the 'promotion' Neal and good to know that the list is being worked on, albeit with little in the way of new figs forthcoming.

Nice one 'V', I'm sure it'll be very effective in battle, the enemy will die laughing :laugh:

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:22 pm 
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Quote (Justiniel @ 10 2005 Feb.,12:14)
Nice one 'V', I'm sure it'll be very effective in battle, the enemy will die laughing :laugh:

hmm, didn't think of it working this way - Tzeentch will prevail, even if it's through laughter.  :p
PS - forgot to say CONGRATS NEAL!, sorry. And Tzeentch is one of my two soft spots for Chaos. The other is bugging me with the flu at the moment.

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:34 pm 
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Still suffering 'V', that's been quite sometime, or is it a new bout?
Slaanesh is the only way to go, all that pleasure :D , though tzeentch does come a close second :p

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:52 pm 
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Quote (Justiniel @ 10 2005 Feb.,13:34)
Still suffering 'V', that's been quite sometime, or is it a new bout?

Still the same bout, Justin, a weird sort of flu without my usual congestion, sore throats and cough, replaced by a terrible back ache, loads of broken bones - well, ok, that's what they feel like - and extremely low energy. And woozyness which produces stuff like the Tzeentchian Hula Dancer. I don't think I'm better - I've continued the TzHD, and am even thinking of making another. The hula skirt consists of one component from the 40K trees sprue set I'd bought for the To6G, incidentally. Useful stuff....er... I think. And no, you won't be getting Squats in grass skirts. They've been through pink rompers, which is enough.

Neal (back to business), with regards to the Titans, I'm assuming that only the standard models would be available, so that the Tzeentchian war machines would be the Warp Palace and the Chaos Warlord, Reaver and Warhound equivalents.
Some ideas on these:
1 - how about psychic powers for the Titans?
2 - Or instead, how about having a Psi-Titan Warlord-equivalent - a Warp Palace on Warlord legs? A sort of Tzeentchian replacement for the Banelord.
3 - One thing I'd love to see - although it's a bit extreme - would be the arcane Tzeentchian equivalent of the Ordinati - a great machine - one-off, perhaps - which is as big and powerful as the Ordinati but is driven by a mix of tech and sorcery - The Mirror of the Sun or something, to keep to the Legio theme.

Besides the Legio, it would be nice to have old Magnus the Red back - bigger and better and sorcerier than ever, a powerful daemonic primarch.

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:23 pm 
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The titans will need to be the standard 3.  I was thinking for weapons make them heavy on the flame/melta/plasma kinds of weapons to keep in theme with Tzeentch flame sorcery.  I figured that probably a single pattern for each chassis would be enough.

I do like the idea of a psi-titan.  Of course, I guess it could be argued that they are all psi-titans.  :p

Even if it is not done up as a discreet unit, it will definitely have to be worked into the background and/or titan descriptions.  Maybe one of GW's infamous oblique fluff references... yeah... a psi titan that converted during the Heresy.  I also have this Tzeentch Imperator conversion just begging for a mention.  I'll think on it.

I think the Warp Palace will pretty much be an Ordinati parallel.  I'm thinking somewhere around DC4, with some sort of defensive ability.  I'd like it to be able to at least have a shot to shrug off a TK weapon.

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:47 pm 
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Apologies for the mini-hijack Neal, but there's a couple more pics of the Tzeentch Hula Dancer (TzHD) in the What-are-you-working-on thread.

Aloha! :p

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:33 pm 
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So, does anyone have the Suns of Damnation article from CJ?  #10, I think.

We've had a bit more discussion, and I posted a first run at a set of stats for the Warp Palace.

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/fo ... IC_ID=5495

There are also some specific questions that I would like to get some opinions about from those of you who don't frequent the playtest boards.

=============

Warp Palace

1) Is this a good addition to the list concept-wise?
2) Is 300 points about right to start testing?
3) Is the defensive "field" ability okay? Why/why not?

Sorcerer Cabal

1) Should this be a separate formation?
2) Should this be a separate unit?
3) Should the concept be rolled into the TSons commanders/supreme commander abilities?

Thrall Wizards

1) What kinds of abilities should they have? Adding some sort of one-shot MW seems an obvious idea. Are there others?
2) Should they be separate stands?
3) Would the "grot" rule work, or would that change their role in the army? I fear they would become cannon fodder instead of fuel for the sorcerers.
4) Should they be purchased as a special ability like sacrifices, i.e. not represented by individual units?





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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:42 pm 
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Well, if anyone cares to comment, I put my alpha-test list up in the TSons discussion thread on the playtest board.

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:04 am 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 21 2005 Feb.,22:42)
Well, if anyone cares to comment, I put my alpha-test list up in the TSons discussion thread on the playtest board.

Hi Neal,
I like it - very Tzeentchian, and the air superiority concept mentioned inthe discussion sounds good. And I LOVE the massed Silver Tower flight! These things would just beg for a unit of models all different from each other - lots of floating islands with different stuff on top. Nice!  :D

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:01 pm 
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Thanks.  Anything you would change?  Any comment on the other issues that Audrey brought up?

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:36 pm 
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Hi Neal,
I'm not big on list mechanics and stuff, so I'll limit myself to saying I'd agree with there being the K Sons chosen termies, at least for 'colour' purposes, and that I like the idea of a load of Silver Towers (my faourite!). I wouldn't comment on points cost, though the 65-75 values seem reasonable. With regards the Titans, Audrey's suggestion for standard Chaos types makes sense with regards to games mechanics, but like you I'd like to see a special flavour - standard Chaos Titans with a Tzeentch-only sorcerer-ish upgrade or two would be fine. The BaneLord is one I'm not sure about - too Khorny ( :p ) , although Tzeentchian counts-as could do. As to the Rubric, I think that would have been relevant to K Sons only, and not the Titans, at least according to GW fluff. :D
Cheers Neal, and good work.

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:43 pm 
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Never one to let ignorance get in the way of a self-inflated opinion...  :D

Have you thought about something like only allowing 1KSons to take Advance actions, to keep them slow and steady as in 40K?

I like the idea of the Thralls being used as sacrifices, very in keeping with the Changer.

I think that the Warp Palace looks about right for its stats. I woudl probably put the speed back down to 15cm, I agree that perhaps 350 points is better and I can certainly a oubliette of Thrall Wizards in the towers.

I also would think that the 1K Sons Chosen Terminators are Rubric, and so I would merge the two types together.

For the force field jobs between the Silver Towers, could you not just count any targets behind the field as in fortifications?

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 Post subject: Thousand Sons List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:51 pm 
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>> Have you thought about something like only allowing 1KSons to take Advance actions, to keep them slow and steady as in 40K?

I considered some ideas like that and looked at the Necron rules/proposals.  While they do use the Slow and Steady rule, that's on a skirmish scale.  The Epic move scale already assumes stop-and-start movement, staying in cover, etc..  The TSons could easily move as quickly on the Epic battlefield as other units, just with less ducking and weaving.

Conceptually, I think the automaton nature would only be a problem at the rapid-response/detailed-work level (like squad level, 40K kind of stuff).  For large scale movements and actions the sorcerers controlling them should be able to have them work with near perfect synchronization and that should make up for the lack of individual precision.

There are some mechanical problems, too.  It would need to only apply to the rubric formations/units, rather than being an army rule.  Perhaps most importantly, the Rubric infantry have no ranged fire.  They have to initiate assaults, so they must have the ability to use Engage actions.

That was my thinking, anyway.

>> I like the idea of the Thralls being used as sacrifices, very in keeping with the Changer... and I can certainly a oubliette of Thrall Wizards in the towers.

Thanks.  I think I will go with the sacrifice/thrall option for the Palace.

>> I think that the Warp Palace looks about right for its stats. I woudl probably put the speed back down to 15cm, I agree that perhaps 350 points is better

Yeah, once I decided the Towers should go to 75 points each, it made it obvious that the WP should go up to 350.

>> I also would think that the 1K Sons Chosen Terminators are Rubric, and so I would merge the two types together.

This certainly seems to be the majority opinion.  I think I will give in to the public and cut it back to just Chosen.  I think I will add Fearless in order to give them a Rubric flavor and boost the points a bit.  Does that sound right?

>> For the force field jobs between the Silver Towers, could you not just count any targets behind the field as in fortifications?

I think that would be too tough, actually.  A -1 to be hit and 4+ cover save would be darn tough.  Right now, it looks like the tactical choice for the enemy is going to be to try to destroy the fire support at range and let the TSon infantry move to within assault distance, or try to stave off the assault while letting the Towers and Palaces chew them up.  If you gave the towers the ability to protect everything behind them that would only leave the option of shooting them.

In any case, I ran the "defensive field" concept up the flagpole and the only response I got was from Audrey, who thought it was fiddly.  It's a valid point and since they are also in Audrey's L&D list, I don't think it's worth a battle.

I would very much like to try something of the sort with the Palaces, but I need to find a mechanic that is quick and easy to use.  I liked the "all units in 5cm count as being in cover" idea, but I'm not sure it would be smooth enough to work in practice.  I'm open to other suggestions.

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