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Finally got my copy
nealhunt	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:29 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I would go with the battlewagon/gunwagon idea.  just orkify the imperial vehicles and use the normal ork stats. I would, however, add a kommando mob.  Something along the lines of 6 models for 150/275/500 would be about right.  Upgrades would include 0-1 nobz, gun/battle/flakwagons, deth koptas, and fortresses. The rest of the list would stay the same. Just my 2 cents. _________________ Neal
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iblisdrax	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:51 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm Posts: 3381 Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.	Hmmm....well he probably won't like the 'battlewagon/gunwagon' idea, since there is alot of that going on with the old orky models already.  But, I think the biggest thing he wants is some kind of ranged firepower to match Imperial artillery.  So maybe have a looted basilisk with the range reduced to 90 cm, and the direct fire mode removed? As for the Looted Russ, I'm thinking making it RA 5, with the battlecannon reduced to AT5/AP5, and CC 4/ FF 4 What do you think? my 2cents, iblisdrax _________________ "Have Leman Reuss, will travel" "Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"
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iblisdrax	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:24 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm Posts: 3381 Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.	As far as the Looted Raider, I would make it about the same, with RA 5  CC 4 FF 4, and replace the weapons with Big Shootas. With these reductions, would it be fair to say that the price could stay about the same as gunwagons?  Aside from the limited availibilty that is... All comments welcome. my 2cents, iblisdrax _________________ "Have Leman Reuss, will travel" "Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"
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iblisdrax	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:43 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm Posts: 3381 Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.	Oh, he just told me he has some Whirlwinds also.  I dont know what to do with those... my 2cents, iblisdrax _________________ "Have Leman Reuss, will travel" "Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"
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Warmaster Nice	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:15 pm Posts: 7948 Location: Denmark	Hmmm.... Perhaps remove the indirect fire capability or something... Orks do have Rokkits but I imagine them a lot less sophisticated than their Imperial counterparts. Cheers! _________________ Sofa General Nobody expects the Inquisition!!! http://theepiclounge.wordpress.com/
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nealhunt	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:31 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I think your Russ and Raider stats are tougher than a standard gunwagon, but they are in the ballpark.  It's certainly okay for knockaround games.  I might put the points at 40-50 if you want a hard number. For the artillery, I would try to shift their stats towards something close to a gunwagon with a soopagun, as that gives it an easy point comparison. I definitely agree that even Blood Axes shoud not have indirect fire. _________________ Neal
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Mojarn Piett	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:56 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am Posts: 5455 Location: Finland	The looted equipment should be something like 0-1 mob per detachment and no big or 'uge mobs available. That way there wouldn't be too many of them. Thing is, what do we remove from the Blood Axes to balance these advantages? _________________ I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
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iblisdrax	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:52 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm Posts: 3381 Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.	But, in Epic40k, they Did have indirect fire with their Pulsa Rokkits...I don't know about previous versions.... my 2cents, iblisdrax _________________ "Have Leman Reuss, will travel" "Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"
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nealhunt	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:18 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Orks have shifted away from that fiddly indirect stuff, though.  It's no fun if you can't see the explosions. ======= How about: Looted artillery (whirlwind, basilisk, bombard, or manticore) 25cm, 6+, 5+, 6+ Looted gun, 60cm, 2bp, MW 75 points (same firepower as an 85 point soopa gunwagon, but weaker) Looted Leman Russ or Land Raider 25cm, 4+, 5+, 5+ 3 Big Gunz, Reinforced armor 75 points (it's about on par with a stompa, faster, but weaker in assaults) Upgrades for the mobz would be 0-1 (so doubled/tripled with big/uge) each.  Available for kommando mobz and warbands.  Looted arty available for gunzmobs.  Looted LRs for Blitz Brigades. You might even consider taking the 0-1 oddboy upgrade off the list  If you did that, these could possibly be cheaper. Looted rhinos and chimeras count as battlewagons Looted predators count as gunwagons Looted hydras count as flakwagons _________________ Neal
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CyberShadow	Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:03 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	Since all eyes seem to be on the Eldar for Epic right now, and since I am working my way through the Swordwind book, I thought that it would be a good time to adapt my E40K force list for EA. I wanted to get some assistance from you guys to try to iron out any inconsistencies and to get rid of a lot of the bias and make it an interesting and balanced force. First up, I have a few questions and comments from Swordwind. Oh, my poor Guardians, what have they done to you? I think that infantry in general has a fairly tough time in EA, but these guys and gals seem to be very difficult to prove useful. They have no save, meaning that they have a habit of falling over their own feet and dropping unconscious just by trapping themselves in the zip of their armour, and their close combat ability is laughable. Sure, a firefight of 4+ is fairly decent, but if you are in firefight range then often you will find the enemy jumping on you quickly. And after all of this, the only real option is to add some weapons platform? as long as you actually want to transport the guys. And I do object to taking troops just because of the different units you can add to them. Oh yes, you can add Wave Serpents (which have been continually watered down over the generations) but these also have no AT weaponry. To be honest, I am not really complaining too much, since I can see the underlying logic and reasoning behind almost all of the factors involved, but how can I use the humble Guardian stands aggressively (or even defensively) and get value for points from them? (Since my Eldar force is built on its Guardians.) Dark Reapers. You have to feel sorry for these guys. They can only look on in awe at their Marine enemy who are able to take pot shots at enemy tanks! Hell, even the Orks and the lowly Imperial Guard have master the art of an infantry weapon that can scare a vehicle. They even have a greater range! I always thought that the Reapers were the scourge of the battlefield, able to get into positions and streak deadly missiles towards the enemy armour. What happened? Shinig Spears, probably my least favourite Aspect, but close combat only? I know that it is a ?lance?, but I always saw these guys as having a ranged, anti infantry weapons. They cant even use their lances in a firefight. I would give the Spears the Reapers cannon, and ask the Reapers to pick up some of those cool and more advanced Ork weapons (!). Oh, and, ?gracility?? Is Jervis just showing off now?   _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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CyberShadow

Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:04 pm

Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore

OK, that has got the basics out of my system, thanks for bearing with me. Some quick background to my Craftworld, Dia?Thendril. An extremely fragmented troop of Eldar, their Craftworld was destroyed aeons ago, near the centre of the galaxy. No-one outside the Craftworld society know what happened, or why, and no Dia?Thendril Eldar will ever talk of it. Relatively small bands of the Eldar, called Star Shards, travel across the webway. They will occasionally meet, trade and move off. Members of one Shard may join another in these meetings and they seem to happen at almost organised times. The Dia?Thendril are unusual in that they do not posses or worship an Avatar figure. It is said that their Avatar was lost in the destruction of their Craftworld. As a response to this, the Dia?Thendril dispersed into groups in order to locate it. The legend is that the Dia?Thendril Eldar will one day find the Avatar, and that they will then all be united into a single power ? an embodiment of their patron God, Thendril, who was turned into a Winged Serpent and shoots lightening from his hands in humanoid form, or his mouth when in serpent form. The overall structure of the Craftworld society is unknown, but it is speculated that there is a central cabal, directing the movements of each of the Shards. Each Shard is completely self sufficient in all ways and seem primarily geared for warfare. They do not stay in any place or planet for long and appear and disappear extremely quickly, it is even fairly common for a number of Shards to arrive at the same time, to engage in battle and then move off, without communication passing between the separate groups. Because of their small groups and the fact that they move along the webway, the Star Shards are composed mainly of infantry, with relatively few large vehicles such as Heavy Tanks or Titans. There are a large number of guardians, with support from the various aspect warriors, including some aspects which do not seem to exist outside of the Dia?Thendril society. Each Shard is lead by a council composed generally of Farseers and Exarchs. The society is also unusual in that it does not have a Avatar, instead there seem to be a number of Phoenix Lords who are allied to the Craftworld. Although each Star Shard is lead by a council which can include psykers, this is not always the case. Some Shards are lead by only psykers, some by only Exarchs, some by a Phoenix Lord, some only by Guardians and some by a mixture. One of the biggest mysteries about this Craftworld is the location of their Spirit Stones. On a normal Craftworld, the Spirit Stones are stored a central hall of the Craftworld and are interfaced to the Infinity Matrix. With Dia?Thendril, the Spirit Stones are collected by the Eldar and taken away. Some are drafted into Ghost Warriors immediately ? and this reduces the shock of such a transfer and improves the co-ordination and effectiveness of the symbiosis. It has been postulated that the remaining Spirit Stones are collected and taken to a central place of importance, where they are grafted onto a device which is similar in many ways to the Infinity Matrix. It has even been suggested that this device is what is referred to as the cabal, which directs the Star Shards movements and actions. It is possible that this is located in the Webway, or a section which exists both in real space and the warp ? but this is currently unknown. There have been reports of a special sect, the Harvesters, within the Craftworld structure which travel between the Star Shards and collect the Spirit Stones. So, the basic premise is that the Craftworld is very different from the typical. I will eventually add all sorts of extra Aspects and so on, but for now I an interested in just looking at the key units from Swordwind and organizing them. I can add extra formations and units later. Prinmarily, I want the Craftworld to be highly mobile, and fragile (but not exclusively Jet Bikes). I want it to be able to relocate extremely quickly and simply vanish from one flank to appear on another. I want it to fair badly in a stand up fight, and rely heavily on hit and run and careful use of units. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

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CyberShadow

Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:15 pm

Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore

Give all of that above (and you don?t need to read it all), my idea for the Craftworld is to concentrate on some units that I simply like the background for, and get rid of others. Strongly represented in the force are Striking Scorpion Aspect Warriors, Warp Spider Aspect Warriors, War Walkers (my favourite 40K Eldar unit), Fire Prisms (I just don?t like the Firestorms) and Nightwings. These strengths don?t need extra rules, they are just for me to bear in mind when I pick the force. I also want to reorganise the Guardian hosts. Out go the Wraithguard and Wraithlords (heavy armour and slow!), and heavy weapon and support weapon platforms, and in come Guardian close combat squads (perhaps cc4+, ff6+ or even cc5+, ff5+) and the ability to add Vypers to the host as highly mobile weapon platforms. All Guardians should be transported, too. I may also add the upgrade to mount the Guardians (and Farseer) in Jet Bikes, instead of having them as a separate host. Wraithguard and Wraithlords are unavailable in this Eldar force, also out goes the Void Spinner (as a Swordwind specific unit). Also, out goes the Avatar (and Court, obviously), and the force will be led by an Autarch (which is a almost Phoenix Lord by another name, right?) who is usually a Striking Scorpion. Other changes proposed are Cobras and Scorpion Super Heavies being available in pairs as a single choice (am I the only one who prefers the E40K version of these vehicles?), and Storm Serpents being available individually. So, the first draft looks like this (I have not changed any unit stats from Swordwind. I will add extra formations later, including extra Aspect Warrior ones. Any points suggestions would be appreciated): INDIVIDUALS 0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind) 0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind, but as a separate stand added to an Aspect Warrior Host and is in addition to the two Exarchs normally allowed) HOSTS Aspect Warrior Warhost (as Swordwind) Guardian Warhost Core - 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat) Upgrade ? Each Guardian unit can be exchanged for a Jet Bike unit - Wave Serpent and/or Falcon transports (not for Jet Bike units, can be used with other upgrades) - Add up to three Vypers War Walker Host (as Swordwind) TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host) Ranger Troupe (as Swordwind) Fire Prism Troupe (as Swordwind) Night Spinner Troupe (as Swordwind) Storm Serpent Troupe (one Storm Serpent) Engines of Vaul Troupe (two units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination) SPACECRAFT, AIRCRAFT AND TITANS All as Swordwind I think that this makes the Guardian Host a must more interesting unit, without taking away its specialisation or is Eldar-ness. What do you think? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

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Zerloon

Post subject: Finally got my copy Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:09 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:01 am Posts: 41

This my 0.02 cents: INDIVIDUALS 0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind) 0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind, but as a separate stand added to an Aspect Warrior Host and is in addition to the two Exarchs normally allowed) I figure Autarch should cost more then. HOSTS Aspect Warrior Warhost (as Swordwind) Guardian Warhost Core - 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat) Upgrade ? Each Guardian unit can be exchanged for a Jet Bike unit - Wave Serpent and/or Falcon transports (not for Jet Bike units, can be used with other upgrades) - Add up to three Vypers War Walker Host (as Swordwind)

So in this manner you will have Aspect Warhost like Biel Tan, Wind Rider warhost like Saim Hann, War Walker Warhost like Alaitoc (maybe) and Falcon transport like Ulthwe, more versatile without any disavantage of other lists... Excuse me but this is totally unbalanced. Read the list in the EpiA Vault, if you confront them you will note the difference.


TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host)
Storm Serpent Troupe (one Storm Serpent)
Engines of Vaul Troupe (two units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination)


I don't understand why divide them, you can actually take the same combination with the standard Engine of Vaul troupe.