British Bunker |
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primarch
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Post subject: British Bunker  Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:02 am |
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Hi!
But WWII, showed the dominance of air power of sea power. If the germans had won the air war could the royal navy realistically have held back invasion?
Given the examples in the war in the pacific and even the british attack on Taranto versus the italians, I dont think the royal navy would have been as effective as some would beleive.
Primarch
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Legion 4
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:37 am |
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Check out the one site that Jimbo posted ... very interesting ... 
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vanvlak
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:54 am |
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Hi all,
interesting stuff - don't forget that the Germans also had trouble obtaining shipping for transferring troops - the collection of boats and barges assembled in French harbours in 1940 was in no way comparable to the dedicated landing craft and support vessels used in 1944.
There was also Hitler's idea that Russia was more of an enemy for the Germans than England - because of the rival Communist ideology and the vast land space for expansion. It seems the will was never quite there. Another invasion which was planned but never carried out was Op. Herkules, the German-Italian invasion of Malta. In part thanks to the Russian front, and in part again thanks to a lack of commitment, this too was never carried out.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:25 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 07 2004 Sep.,03:02) | But WWII, showed the dominance of air power of sea power. If the germans had won the air war could the royal navy realistically have held back invasion?
Given the examples in the war in the pacific and even the british attack on Taranto versus the italians, I dont think the royal navy would have been as effective as some would beleive. |
You may well be right, but look at Operation Tiger which was the disasterous night when a few (nine) German e-Boats took out a range of American landing craft preparing for the D-Day landings.
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq20-2.htm
The Germans did not have air superiority, nor did they have a large number of naval vessels, but they played havoc with the American craft leaving 749 dead or missing.
Imagine the force of the Royal Navy on the German invasion fleet, true the force of the navy would have been heavily damaged by German air power, but not before they did serious damage to the slow and cumbersome German barges._________________ Jimbo
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furgie
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:10 pm |
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From what I've read, I can't see the Royal navy throwing away its assets attacking the invasion fleet. German aircraft would have torn the British fleet apart. If the UK did fall, the Royal Navy would have been the main force for protecting british territories around the world.
As for Tiger, if I recall right, this was due to a communications failure, as its Royal Navy protection was withdrawn with engine trouble and a replacment was not sent.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:35 pm |
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Somehow based on evidence from the time, the German success against naval vessels from the air was somewhat lacking.
Taken from one of the links above:
The Luftwaffe of the period had a pathetic record against warships. 39 RN destroyers took part in the Dunkirk evacuation. This operation required manoeuvring in a small harbour, with periods stationary while embarking troops. The Luftwaffe had command of the air for long periods. In these ideal conditions, the Luftwaffe managed to put out of commission a grand total of 4 destroyers. 4 out of 39 does not bode well for the Luftwaffe's chances during Sealion.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:30 pm |
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Based on what I've read and the sites that Jimbo posted ... the Germans would have had a hard time for many reasons ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:32 pm |
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Jimbo,
Great photos!
Thanks for sharing!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:05 pm |
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Legion 4
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:00 am |
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Tank busting and sinking ships are a whole other target ... 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:27 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 07 2004 Sep.,23:54) | Hi!
Interesting. It seems that Junkers were great tank buster, but crappy at everything else. I guess they didnt have a real dedicated anti-ship plane.
Just as well, german sounds like a difficult language to learn....
Primarch |
Do you mean Ju-87 (Stuka)?
I think the pilots were crappy if they really fared that badly. The tankbuster version, BTW, didn't exist at the time. IIRC it wasn't until 1943.
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Xavi
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Post subject: British Bunker Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:31 am |
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Consider that they had just invaded France. Combat fatigue was taking a heavy toll on the germans and the luftwaffe was no exception in that. They also had ground supperiority and didn't use it to full effect, so it is not a Ju-87 issue but a whole german army issue. They did let them go, basically. A dedicated assault probably would have done much more damage but now, we will never know. It iwll be a "what if" situation of those 
Xavi
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