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Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
netepic
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 4:36 pm 
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Well the Miniatures Online the EPICentres online store will be closing. This is after long discussions with both the GW Trade Account guys and emailed verification from Jervis.

As we can no longer get EPIC goods from on our trade account, (only 40k, LOTR, WFB) we see no reason to continue our GW trade account. There is not enough reason to supply it, and if we did then we would have our account terminated anyway.

We are left selling VOID, this sells very well locally but most of the people who visit Miniatures Online are epic players, and 28mm VOID games don't appear to sell well to that target audience.

So it is the end of an era, whilst we just managed to fund the website through VOID sales, it was always tight (and then my Syntha army took more than the profit anyway)!

So I will consider carrying on the VOID trade account as a mail order company, but no longer online sales. It is a shame, as selling EPIC was a goal of mine, it would be supporting the site, providing cheap miniatures to our players and at the same is something close to my heart.

It is also distancing me from the GW hobby at large, Epic:A is my last link to GW models, my Dwarf army is from Black Tree Design and I have no interest in other GW products. I prefer VOID as a gaming system to 40k 3rd Ed, and hopefully 'Dawn of Darkness' will do quite well too.

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:15 pm 
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As for asking them to remove materials, I don't actually see why that is wrong? I probably don't think it's wrong as I have done it myself on numerous occassions to stop people putting my pictures on their websites, as people use my images (and in some cases my bandwidth) quite a bit.

Don't take my asking the question as having "a go at you", it's not, it's just that the reality is somewhat different to what is been spread about the internet.


I definitely agree that reality is different from the Internet.

I suppose that I'm mostly concerned about this one because it affects my friends and my favorite local shop. Noone likes to see their family take one in the belt.

About IP, in the end, what will matter is how vigorously GW decides to "pursue" GW fans. We can only wait and see.

One of my friends did close up his site, but he asked me not to mention his name. People will notice soon enough.

I'll get some other names soon.

By the way, Neal at TheWarstore.com has always been a stand up sort of guy.

I'm also with you, Jimbo, that I vote with my wallet and GW won't see much more of my currency with this kind of policy enacted.

I think I've finally been pushed over the edge to the "Rebellion." Between this and having my sincere playtesting just about 100% ignored, I'm not so charmed with GW. I wasn't happy before; now, I'm less so.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:24 pm 
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Jimbo,

?Posted: 17 2003 April,15:16 Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay

I'll accept the WarStore story as possible "fact" - none of this is mentioned on the WarStore site and the E-mail used on the usenet posting is not the one on the website. We'll see what happens July 15th...

Maksim,

You said in one posting:

Quote ?
I don't know how this is going to affect us other than the "Intellectual Property" issue. I hope this site won't close down. Several sites have already been closed down.

You now say:

Quote ?
As far as "intellectual property" goes, I'll concede that, noone has ACTUALLY closed yet, but they've received notice to remove materials or close. ?

Which one is fact, which one is a rumour?


I guess the difference of opinion is whether GW enforces its' words. Saying to close down and waiting until the due date is still closing down. Literally spoken, Only one of my friends, who requests to not be mentioned, has closed down. Figuratively (like the pun?) speaking, with this policy, my local shop and others are just "dead men walking."

-------------

The fact is that GW has made a major business decision that will affect all of us in the USA if not in the UK too (and elsewhere - Sorry Ozzies and Euros!).

The rumor is the details how they plan to do it.

--------------

Would this statement satisfy your business education and training, Jimbo?

I also don't feel that we are in an adversarial relationship (except across the gaming table) and I respect your well spoken words. I don't know why you're being the devil's advocate (in favor of GW), but, then again, I'm angry with GW right now so I'm not expecting a lot of clear thought from myself.

Shalom and all the best to everyone,
Maksim-Smelchak.




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Jackhammer
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:04 pm 
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If anyone's interested there a lot of feedback over the news on the WPS forums...

Main Thread http://www.players-society.com/newforu....start=0

Boycott - http://www.players-society.com/newforu....start=0

DonRiddick - http://www.players-society.com/newforu....start=0

40K reaction - http://www.players-society.com/newforum ... php?t=6930

Personally, I don't buy direct from GW anyway, much cheaper to go secondhand, so don't have any option of joining a boycott even if I decided it was a good idea.
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stormseer
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 8:57 pm 
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Hmmm.  :o  A sudden turn of events eh?!

....Kinda depressing, but I guess we will just have to see how it all pans out in the end.. :(

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:08 pm 
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Jimbo,

Don Riddick's one of my friends who spends hundreds every month on his GW armies. He's one of those people listed in a link above. He OK'ed me to quote him. That's one real person who's giving up the hobby.

I waiting to hear back from others and I'll provide their names as hard facts too.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

P.S.
I can't wait to get some submissions together for your site. Your work is outstanding, but you know that!  :)

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Brother-Captain Parzval
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:46 pm 
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I dont know if Im the only one to react this way, but I couldnt care less really... The only things I need from GW right now are their paints. I only want old epic minis, and I get those second-hand from other players.

For fantasy minis there really is no reason to buy GWs stuff anymore, Foundry, Reaper and Perry and other companies make minis the way Citadel used to make them, and they are cheaper aswell.

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stormseer
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:44 pm 
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Yeah, Reaper produce some nice stuff, especially these Mechs which I just had a look at.. :)

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:07 pm 
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Let there be no doubt, there are a lot of good 6mm Sci-fi model companies around. ?GZG and Adler plus many more produce models that easily could be used for Epic. ?Hopefully G/W will produce the E-A models it promises, regardless of how well the rules sell. Either way G/W & F/W will get my $ ... again ?:p ? That being said, I always order Epic by phone from G/W US and F/W on line, again they'll get my $ :{ ...  oh, well :) .

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primarch
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:48 pm 
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Hi!

I was wondering when this topic would appear here, it has already exploded on most of the large forums and it seems its more than a rumor and has been verified by online store owners and others as "fact".

Personally, I could care less, I haven't bought regularly from GW since 1996. I predominately buy GW stuff second hand and through auctions or private deals which GW can touch or harm with their policies. Of course my other hobby interests like RPG's and such are totally unaffected by this too, I can still get them cheap.

A lot has been said across online forums on what will happen with this desicion. But I can tell you there will be a backlash from many who will abandon GW for more "friendly" game companies, whether GW will be able to replace them, only time will tell.

IMO, its a rather risky move on GW part. They may be able to increase their revenues, but they are also leaving the internet wide open to competing games to increase thier "internet share". games like Void and Warzone could capitalize greatly if they can effectively exploit this. Add that to the obvious ill-will it is already causing in the internet community and I wonder if it is worth it for GW.

One interesting analysis I saw on this subject was that GW current policies and demeanor closely mimics that of the old TSR before in burst into flames. As GW now, they also attacked their fans, alienated thier distributors and retail contacts and sought to squeeze ever greater profits. Its no secret that GW's growth aims (especially in the US) have been stagnant and below expectations perhaps this is supposed to remedy that.

Like Jimbo mentioned, across the years, it has been said many times that GW's time "has come". I have ignored such things before, since I really didn't see any of their desicions affecting their bottomline. I'm not so sure this time, its a very BIG assumption to assume that 100% of online buyers will "automatically" switch to buy direct at GW online mail order or their stores at full retail price. They are reducing their actual exposure and representation online in hopes that due to lack of alternatives people will buy from them at full price. Again, pretty big assumption. Only time will tell how correct or incorrect their hunch is.

I suspect that this "may" be the straw that broke the camels back for many of their fans. We'll see.

Primarch

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darkone26
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:48 pm 
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Its a shame that so many feel they way they do and I cant say I blame them. I have also seen the reaction regarding these policies and only time will tell if GW can ride this out.

I just feel sorry for those that are really affected considering how much these online outlets had really helped distribute the hobby as well as provide jobs and revenue.

I just hope that the situation doesnt get worse due to any backlash that could happen, like prices going up again to replace any revenue missed through boycotts. That would be crap!   :{
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signius
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:53 am 
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The War Store has officially confirmed that GW is screwing us all. It is no longer rumor.
http://www.thewarstore.com/
:(

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:59 pm 
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More arcane marketing techniques from G/W ??? ?  The company must be doing well to take such a bold measure ... Hopefully this won't affect E-A, in any way ... but who knows ?  :{

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Blacksnotling
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 5:27 pm 
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I see it affecting Epic:A because it is a Fanatic game, which means that most of its stock won't be in the mail GW stores, which in turn means that it will mainly avaliable from mail order places. If GW shuts these online ones down then many people will not have very easy access to the minitures, and if they don't have access to the minitures then they won't play the game!

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Jimbo
 Post subject: Rumor's true. GW to screw Internet businesses
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 6:18 pm 
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Quote (signius @ 19 2003 April,11:53)
The War Store has officially confirmed that GW is screwing us all. It is no longer rumor.
http://www.thewarstore.com/
:(

The plot deepens

From the warstore.net

I have it on very good sources that GW UK is very concerned about this matter. From what I hear, Games Workshop Founders and 'significant investors' have flown in from the UK for meetings on these events with GWUS corporate officers. It is possible they are as suprised and concerned about this as we are. Interesting development, certainly in the realm of rumor but from a good source.

My solution -- continue to email and phone your concerns to GW in a calm and polite manner. There might just be someone listening.

Neal


Also

with reference to IP (quoting Gray Sage here)

1) Brand Names and Logo's CAN be used freely as long as there is a Site disclaimer stating there is NO connection to GW

2) Artwork in ANY form, be it pictures or grafix can NOT be used without explicite permission of GW

3) Pictures of the miniatures, painted and/or unpainted CAN be used, as long as it is pictures that you created yourself and/or pictures that are from any source other then GW, and you gained permission for
their use.

4) Descriptions and (copyrighted) names can be used, again, put a disclaimer on the site.

5) stats and rules can not ever be used on a web-site (this one, from experienced, WILL be followed up by actions if discovered). OTOH, you could describe the working of the rules in your own words and get away with it....

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