Kyrt wrote:
Yeah personally I think the opponent-annoyance factor of a cheesy 1+ auto-retain rolling assault is the biggest problem. So the combination of 1+ initiative and farsight.
I had a hunch that the SR5 issue has been a little overstated, so I ran the numbers to see what difference it really makes to winning strategy in turn 2 (compared to SR4). Remember the higher your strategy, the more likely you are to win turn 1, thus the more likely a draw in turn 2 will go against you. So the benefit is dampened ever so slightly.
Basically it makes an 8% to 13% difference, depending on the SR of the army you are facing (bigger difference vs SR5).
yeah, I agree on the +5 strategy. it is nothing as dramatic as one might think. the ini 1+ is an entirely other thing.
but, if you can come up with a better idea to make an Ulthwe list at least marginally attractive while keeping the flair otherwise, you're welcome to discuss your idea.
because from my point this is the whole difficulty with this list. it's guardians that should be highligthed here. wow. have a look at the restrictive setup of the list. only 1 core formation. guardians. only unlocks two supports (as opposed to 3 in every other eldar list). only 4 strong aspects. it makes it really hard not to turn players away from it, because it is simply not as sexy as a bielt tan, iyanden or saim hann is. you just get some squishy guardians and 1 farseer extra (that also replaces a guardian). it is very hard to keep this list attractive. players just need something. not only a cropped down list with no extra whatsoever, only restrictions and limitations. that's why I think the BGWH needs to be a bit better than the other vanilla guardians. and that's why I stick to ini 1+ atm. otherwise there would be no reason for me not to take biel tan.
and if you get caught in a cheesy auto retain with guardians (which is simply not possible atm if the formation is not on board yet or has lost a farseer) and didn't place any BM on that really soft formations before, you have been doing something wrong, frankly. and a cheesy nearly auto retain in a biel tan list is also quite easy to achieve. just line up two aspects and and a warlock titan. granted that second aspect would need a 2+. but hey, i'd place my money on them any time and compared to guardians they really pack some greater punch.
still I see your point, and a friend proposed an interesting and quite fluffy idea that contain no special rule. I will share that for discussion soon, after I posted the battle reports for the two games I had with the current list last saturday. still sorting pics and writing things down from the notes we took.
so, stay tuned and give me your ideas you lovely people.
best