Well, theres alot of opinions here that needs to be backed up by empirical facts.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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Yes, i was refering to all the sceptics in this thread. So far the EpicUK lists have been borh balanced and fun to play with! Looking forward to seeing your take on the Gargants when it comes around.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

The wording of "tunneller" seems a little unclear to me. Could someone confirm that tunnellers follow the drop pod process at the start of the turn that they arrive, ie. that their arrival point may be moved 15cm from the planned point, and then they scatter.

They arrive at the point you write down, you may not move them and they don't scatter.

Thanks. I was confused by the wording "if the tunneller would have surfaced in terrain that is impassable to it". Possibly a cut and paste hang-over.

Perhaps we could remove the reference to terrain?

Getting away from some of the over-excitement about spamming units, one thing I really like about this list is the various synergies between units. For example:
Want to use a Cyclops' TK to full potential? Overlords are great at stripping void shields
Finding bezerkers a bit light in assaults despite good numbers+inspiring? Bikes are perfect to prep units and then provide MW support fire, turning things your way
Find Goliaths are getting targeted? Iron hawks garrisoned on OW give you the protection you need

I think this is actually good list design - more variety means a better list, a good fit as if the Squats are aimed at anyone, it's nostalgic gamers and collectors who want to take a bit of everything

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Thanks Mark, hopefully we haven't missed an overpowered combination, but this is a great list to play.

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Spot on Mark.

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There was a similar bump in interest at the moment the AMTL list was approved. The list went from gamers who wanted to take a bit of everything to suddenly being a tournament-list that appealed to people who wanted to maximise the the strongest parts of the list and avoid the weak ones.

Suddenly the lists being used and proposed weren't a mix of old units and fan favourites, but lists with 90BP or 18x 90cm macroweapon shots per Reaver etc. They've pretty much all been fixed since (thanks Vaaish) but teething problems aren't uncommon when a list goes live.

There were a few cries of foul or poor sportsmanship or 'what &%!% would even think if taking that!?' from veteran players, but really it's just a change of gear when a list becomes approved, and suddenly the potentially powerful combos get spotlighted. If 'That' is legal, someone is going to think of taking it

Garrisonable 6BP Indirect Disrupt for 200pts? Yes I can see people thinking of taking that en masse.

If anything it is just a shame the real 'power building' doesn't often happen earlier in the process.

The Mortars are obvious, but someone asked me to compare one of the other units (overlord) so here's a quick synopsis.

Comparison of EpicUK Baneblade to EpicUK Overlord

Reasons to compare:
They both have armour 4+, both are reinforced, they have the same Damage Capacity, both have mixed weapons and maximum range of 75cm. They also come from Strategy rating 2 armies and both are 2+ activations.
(No comparison between units in armies is ever perfect, but this is probably an acceptable comparison to an existing unit)




They are both extremely survivable vehicles vs anything other than TK.

Areas the Baneblade is better:
[] It costs 50pts less (200 vs 250)
[] Easier to hide
[] From an army with Commissars

Areas the Overlord is better:
[] It can skim over terrain
[] It can see over terrain pieces more easily when firing
[] It is faster
[] It is immune to Close Combat
[] It has built in Anti Air
[] Damage output vs tanks at range 75 is between 3 and 6 times as good (usually the latter, there is rarely a reason not to ensure the target is directly in front).
[] Damage output vs infantry at range 75 is between 2.25 and 4.5 times as good.
[] Damage output at all ranges vs all targets is better than baneblade.
[] It has blast weaponry (short range, not frequently used)


Conclusion:
The new unit (Overlord) is significantly more powerful than the established unit (Baneblade). Its advantages include speed, immunity to CC, built in AA and 6 times as many battle cannons.

Suggestions
The Overlord looks underpriced compared to the Baneblade. Making the Overlord more expensive may not be ideal due to the fact it doesn't make it more survivable.
Instead I suggest the area to tweak is the damage output; Overlord Battlecannons should be 'fixed' left and right, so they can't fire 6 at a single target to the direct front or rear.
This would better match the rules to the model, and it would still have higher damage output against all targets at all ranges than a Baneblade.


Just suggestions.

Baneblades are generally considered fairly poor though, so a conclusion that Overlords are better is not really definitive . Especially seeing as it is hard to judge on paper how big a weakness lack of fearless and almost always being targetable are when compared to Guard Baneblades.

In reality the Overlords were a concern during testing and had a good deal of focus, it was decided that although they may be a little above the curve, in the context of an army lacking in a number of options (air and space being obvious) combined with lowish strat and average init that they are powerful but acceptable within the context of the army.

But as you say until an army is played in a tournament setting or even over many tournaments it is never really truly tested and like all lists we release for the UK tournament scene we will certainly keep an eye on Squats.

Fair point, although having 6 times the amount of battlecannons would probably fix that issue for Baneblades too



Great. Have fun with them.

We've run between 2 and 4 overlords in our games and yes they're one of the stronger units in the army but definitely very manageable for opponents. They're in a funny points class of much better than a baneblade but not as good as a warhound (for 275).

Faced 3 in my last game against squats and they did very little. I think they should be thoroughly explained by the squat player in the 5 minute warm up as they're definitely a surprise if you haven't faced them before. Also, epic uk did dial them back compared to net ea by removing spotter.

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The Warhound comparison is i think fairer than a baneblade really, as i think they do kinda sit in a similar spot in their respective lists.

Interestingly on the survivability front it really does i think depend on circumstances. From ranged shooting anything that can utilise cover both for just straight out hiding but also 'toeing in' for the -1 to hit gives a huge advantage to the ground based warmachines, while they're both in the same boat from firefights. It's really just CC which gives the Overlord a big advantage, making it much more survivable against say Terminators - right until you factor in the Fearless that is. It's a difficult thing to cost in imo, but has a huge impact on a game (as anyone playing against the likes of Chaos marine cult lists will know) when you can't plink things to death and have to kill every last damn one of them.