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Help, Orky players!
iblisdrax
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:40 pm 
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Has anyone playtested EpicA with extremely large forces, ie, 5k and above, and found any major slowdowns?  Especially with the smaller unit sizes?  This is probably the only problem I currently have with the new rules.  Comments, please.


my 2cents of questions,

iblisdrax

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:52 pm 
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Agree that you end up with a myriad of activations. However I think it's not much different than when playing old SM2.  Sure it takes longer to play and an SM or Eldar player will have a lot more activations than his/her opponent but I haven't found it to be too much of a problem. Good tactics on behalf of the IG Chaos or ORk player can level the problem out pretty much (But of course a wrong move will tend to cost you dearer)

Cheers :)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:38 am 
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I've found that things can slow down a bit... plus the extra saving throws for many units.  For this reason I'm keeping Epic40k around.

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:04 pm 
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iblisdrax

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:37 pm 
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We have always used activation, since we start playing Epic with SM1.  It was the first major change we made.  Activation makes for a much better game and makes it more like chess then checkers. SM2 sold very well but from a war game stand point it was quite puerile, IMO.  E:A with activation and their combat results system makes this Jervis's best attempt.  Of course if you like checkers, just play 40K !  :laugh:

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primarch
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:43 pm 
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Hi!

Unit activation is the mechanic in "vogue". Its engaging and provides a very "tactical" experience. The second edition mechanics were not built to accomodate it and the most net epic could do is make movement alternating as is the firing phase.

Thats why Heresy was updated to its second version, to incorporate unit activation. It improved the design by leaps and bounds.

Primarch

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:58 am 
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Yep, I can't imagine playing Epic without activation ...   :;):

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:27 pm 
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Activation is not what concerns me, actually.  The fact that they decided to reduce unit sizes from epic40k (I havent played any of the earlier games, so I dont know what the unit sizes were then)  is what concerns me the most.  If the detachment/formation sizes were left the same, especially for eldar/marines, I think that the game wouldnt slow down that much.

my 2cents

iblisdrax

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:20 pm 
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From my experience starting with SM1 and activation since then, I don't see it being a concern. ?SM2 lended itself to Big detachment games because many things had no saves or a 6 Save in the case of Terminators (!). ?I'd watch as guys played SM2. ?They'd spend more time putting stuff on the board and taking it off after one round of firing then maneuvering ! ?So I don't believe that the detachment size will slow the game. ?We still use SM1 Unit Organization Templates for the most part. ?Units are usually 4-8 models/stands. ?If anything will slow play, it's the combat results system, as in SM1, every weapon on a vehicle gets a shot. We prefer the E40K Firepower system, with the occasional AT shot. ?After years of using the SM1 weapons tables, we had to bow to the more efficient (IMO) Firepower system. ?Of course "slow gaming" is matter of taste, as it is for us to find 4-6 hours to play a game or even 2-4 is too much. ?As we got older we had less time to play and spent more time on our responsibilities (!,?) and we didn't start playing Epic until our mid-30s ! ?:{

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Tepoc
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:02 pm 
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If you want to play a really huge game (on the organizational level) go and play battleforce (for the battletech system) or make up a counter style game.

EA rocks.

Cheers!
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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:45 pm 
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I have been trying to convince the Ork player in our group over to Epic A.  Unfortunately, in last nights game, a 2000 point Ork vs Guard, he lost soundly, mainly due to good dice rolling on my part (Guard), and some rules mistakes and tactical errors on his part.  He tried to take his Stompamob toe to toe with my Leman Russ company (plus 3 Destroyers), and lost badly.  He also tried to assault a Mech Company entrenched in some ruins (4+saves, yeaa!)  with a hugely oversized warband with too many Stormboyz, this was a rules error, because he thought that you could transport different detachments like Epic40k, so we just combined them into one massive detachment.  Didnt matter anyway, they got thrown back.  
    So, I need help finding ways to win him over.  He doesnt like the transport rules, and he doesnt like the fact that big gunz arent as usefull in Epic A as they were in Epic40k.  And he hates the fact that he cant field massive batteries of Pulsa rockkit disrupt weapons.  I tried to explain that to give orks Pulsa disruptors would unbalance the game, or that they would be prohibitively expensive.  
   Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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Jimbo
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:16 pm 
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Well you could have let him win....

Or played a scenario in which he always won, but gave you an interesting tactical scenario (ie you have 2000pts, he had 6000 or 4000 pts).

It was his first game, he lost, and though that wouldn't bother me, the fact he lost as turned him against the game - even more so as you were trying to convince him to play.

This was not a fair game, you knew the rules well, he didn't.

Play again and let him win (but don't let him know).

...or play Epic40K one week EA the next.

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:53 pm 
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The Orks have serious limitations in E-A. When he realizes that, things will get better.

Even with their limitations though, they now play very well as an attritional horde army. If he's willling to sacrifice some of his maggoty Orks then he will probably get good results.

Also introduce him to the Supagunz. They always give me a good chuckle of enjoyment.

Shalom,
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Markconz
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:37 pm 
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Having played orks a lot in both E40k and EA I much prefer the EA version... they have a much more orky feel to them.  

Do like Jimbo says - let him win without knowing it...

Or my first battle report where the orks win might inspire him:

http://au.geocities.com/markconz/eab1.html

...also I think the formations I use in that are reasonably effective ones... Stompas are great at holding ground... they can garrison and the enemy will waste a lot of firepower on them.  If you face MW enemies then stick the cheap Kans in the front to soak it.  

'Uge Gunwagonz mobz with 3 supa-zzap guns are another favourite, (much better at handling enemy armour than stompas), and lets not forget Landas and Fighta bombas (ork artillery - great at taking out enemy artillery formations).

Ork infantry is cheap, exendible and fantastic in an assault, just getting there is the problem, transport and unload right close next to your supressed target, then assault next turn.

Another piece of advice for ork players in general, is to stick your two objectives close to the enemy base line objective.  The enemy must then hold this piece of ground or let you win the game, they cannot just keep falling back from the green horde.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Help, Orky players!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:28 pm 
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>> He doesnt like the transport rules

That's just a 40K bias.  Not much to do there, but you would have thought the world was coming to an end from the way some of the 40K players on the forum reacted to it.

>> and he doesnt like the fact that big gunz arent as usefull in Epic A as they were in Epic40k

I think they are just as good, actually, and in a similar way - more range and twice the firepower as a boyz stand.

>>  And he hates the fact that he cant field massive batteries of Pulsa rockkit disrupt weapons.

Uge gunzmob with 3 oddboyz (pulsa rokkits as soopagunz) and 3 nobz.

12 45cm AP5/AT5 shots
6BP MW barrage (or a 4BP barrage and a TKd3 if he prefers)
3 Leaders for removing BMs

That's some serious firepower for 430 points.  I've taken down a warhound in one salvo with about half that much firepower (straight damage, no criticals).

The best way to disrupt the enemy is to actually kill things...

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