Well hopefully removal of the Spotter rule is going to simplify things a bit.
The Doomsday Cannons do not need access to Indirect Fire.

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Automata is also effectively shared with the AdMech lists (if they've got differences that should be rectified) and another of those "we really should put it in the TP special abilities section" deals.

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Got a game in on Friday night with the Squats vs Space Marines, I played Goliaths x2 (300pts), Leviathan (350pts) & Leviathan (350pts).

Used CC 5+ for the Leviathans and one survived an engagement from terminators who rolled poorly to hit and then double 1 for resolution.

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I don't understand why any Squat War Engine other than the Colossus had that spotter rule anyway. In 2nd edition it was only the Colossus that could do that, and only with the line of sight from the attached Iron Eagle Gyrocopter.

I wouldn't be opposed to keeping the spotter rule but having the only WE that was able to take advantage of it being the Colossus.

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So how do you feel about them having a 5+ cc? Is it too weak? Too powerful? Or do you think it makes much of a difference? I know you were previously in favor of keeping them 4+. Has that changed? If the terminators had rolled better do you think it would have made a significant difference if the Squat WE had been cc4+?

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Going back to the land train, what sort of roles should it have? It would be nice to use the flexible choice of cars to allow it to have different options of role.

What is the mileage in a close support role, using dragon battle cars and berserkers to make a WE that can get in close, shred enemy inf formations and lend support in FF? (For a formation doing the old retain to engage). Would that be useful? What about giving the dragon cars IC in a firefight?

What other roles would be good for the land train?

Also what about the siege mortar cars? What about keeping them 30cm range, but giving them MW?
This would mean the in the FxF arc the land train could get up to 6BP MW for targets within 30cm (with two seige mortars and the obligatory rad bomb) and also have the option of a 30cm 3BP MW shot outside of the FxF arc ( or 60cm if sustaining and indirect)

I know I've only mentioned buffs, I'm just sounding out some ideas, (cause I'd love to get my land train on the table.)

Some good ideas! I agree with the MW siege mortars, I've yet to see them in a game, as people have said it's either 3 x berzerker or Rad Bomb. With the Dragon cars, how about:
50pts just AP shots or 75pts +1FF IC. This makes a close range shooting specialist/support FF role more viable.
To me this starts to look more the equal of other cars.(I can imagine actually wanting a few cars of this type)

I played the Epic UK playtesting rules with leviathans at 350pts and this felt about right. Obviously, if we make rhinos an upgrade for warriors this also simplifies having it as a transport.

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So Land Train eh?

Let's take a step back - forget everything you know about the Land Train.

Here's have what we have already
Cyclops - Anti-titan titan
Colossus - Middle of the road bruiser
Leviathan - Close range transport


Where would the concept of a 'new' role for the Land Train fit?

Long Range Artillery?
Close Combat?
Short Range Fire Fights?
Mobile Buff Wagon?

The problem with making rules for the train is that is doesn't really know what it's trying to be in the first place.

Why not all four? If Titans can choose to have different loadouts to help shore up a weakness in a list or add more support where needed, why can't the Squat Land Train be given those same options? When you buy any other Squat WE, you are locked into whatever configuration said WE has. So why not give some variety to the Land Train so you can outfit it how you need it.

Do you need more close combat support? Land Train Berserker cars. Need more Barrage? Take more Rad Bombs. Etc.


.

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Yep inclined to agree with Roadkill here it is the generalist that can be tailored one way or another. Though I'd like to see it useable with a mixed loadout, as that is what a lot of other races have as fixed on their Titans in standard lists.

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Sure, can do. If you would like to pitch such an idea with rules up here make it happen.

My concern is that it's very hard to balance a multi-role cars both with other cars, and with other choices in the list.

If the anti-titan cart is better than the Cyclops, then we will see only anit-titan land trains and no cyclopses. Also it means that the other three carts will never get used when it's shooting at titans (just an example).

My idea is to pick a role, and have all 4 carts contribute to the role in different ways. Let me see if I can come up with an example

Wild Example Land Train: Artillery Style
This Land Train conceptualizes the vehicle as a long 'artillery train' (Ha! Get it?) that chugs into position before the battle and site there raining death from above from it's main Doomsday cannon.

It has a variety of carts that not only interlink into the targeting systems of the main gun, but also carry a variety of specialist advances ammunition that can be fired from the Doomsday Cannon depending on the target

Land Train Engine

As it is now except the DoomsDay cannon looses MW.
Special: Instead the DoomsDay cannon can choose to fire ONE of the following specialist ammunition shells, if the appropriate cart is available:
Radiation Shells : Grants Macro Weapon
Dragonfire Shells: Grants Ignore Cover
Siege Shells: Grants Disrupt

Rad Bomb
Cost: 125pts
90cm 1BP Macro Weapon
Special: Grants access to Radiation Shells to the main Doomsday Cannon

Siege Mortar
Cost: 75pts
90cm 1BP Disrupt
Special: Grants access to Siege Shells to the main Doomsday Cannon

Dragon Cart
Cost: 75pts
90cm 1BP Ignore cover
Special: Grants access to Dragon Shells to the main Doomsday Cannon

Bezerker Cart
Cost: 50pts

As is now.



So this is off the top off my head and probably needs a lot of polish, but as is, it provides a war engine with a better defined role: That of artillery support. A train with one of each of the carts can sit back and shoot the all-important 4BP double template and choose between MW, IC and Disrupt each turn.

This may not be a sensible idea, but gives a hint at the kind of thing I am thinking of.

That's a super cool idea!

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Wild Example Land Train: Close Engagement* Style!

I envision that this Land Train is packed to the gills with angry bezerkers. Bezerkers pouring out of the bezerker carts, bezerkers manning the guns, even the driver is a crazed bezerker. This War Machine is driven fast, right into the guts of the enemy forces, almost suicidally (aka Dwarf Troll Slayers).

I figure that Squats rarely fight Squats, except when disputes over mining stakes get ugly. Land Trains are originally mining vehicles, and when the low-down, no good brotherhood over the hill is claim jumping on your iron mine, then you load up the ol' train with all the angry drunken miners you can find and drive it right into the enemy squat's mine fortification, blasting away with all the short-ranged mining munitions you can lay your hands on.

Land Train Engine

As it is now except the DoomsDay cannon reduced to 60cm. Also no Indirect Fire on this one!
Speed increased to 25cm (maybe 20)

Rad Bomb
Cost: 100pts
60cm MW 2+ TK(D3)
and
EA+1 CC TK(D3) or EA+1 FF TK(D3)
This anti-titan missiles used to come with sophisticated tracking and guidance systems - systems that can no longer be produced since the loss of the Homeworlds. Undeterred, the crazed bezerkers have taken to diving up close with the unguided missile and firing them at suicidal close range into enemy titans, sometimes firing them point blank into close combat

Demolition Mortar
Cost: 75pts
60cm 3 x AP5+/AT4+Disrupt
and
EA +1 FF Disrupt

Designed for blasting apart rockface walls, it's equally good at bringing down fortifications and enemy vehicles

Dragon Cart
Cost: 75pts
60cm 4 x AP4+ Ignore cover
EA +1 FF Ignore Cover

Flamers are great for clearing trenches!

Bezerker Cart
Cost: 75pts
Each cart increases CC value by 1 up to a maximum of 2+
EA +1 CC
AA Autocannon 45cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+

I figure the gun on top of the bezerker cart is high enough to be a AA gun. At least this WE will have some air cover as it races forward

*Not that kind of romantic wedding engagement - the kind where dozens of angry midgets pour out and assault you.
Actually, to some of you reading this, that might just be you kind of idea romantic wedding engagement.

I like how this is going. I think the artillery land train idea is the most elegant in terms of rules, and easier to play test. Although I do like what you're doing with the close engagement version, as that is a different kind of war engine than the other squat options. I want to try tha one out first!