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landing and air assaults - when do you declare?

 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Also to note this is not dissimilar to the Jink mechanic.

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
So to clarify,
  • The player declares "Ground attack" and passes
  • The Transport makes it's approach move to a point somewhere on the battlefield. This does not have to be a point where there is an enemy formation is within Arc, Range and LoS of it's weapons.
  • Defensive Flak and then enemy Flak are resolved.
  • The transport then decides whether to land, and whether to assault or shoot.


At the risk of belaboring this... Some are in agreement with this, but others are saying this is how they do it:

  • The player declares "Ground Attack" or "Air Assault"
  • The Transport makes it's approach move to a point somewhere on the battlefield. This does not have to be a point where there is an enemy formation is within Arc, Range and LoS of it's weapons.
  • Defensive Flak and then enemy Flak are resolved.
  • The transport then decides whether to land

In any case, I think a clarifying FAQ that says both are valid (just agree upon it in the 5-min warmup) would be good.

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:01 pm 
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Yeah probably worth inclusion in the tourny pack as a callout box with an "Example of Play" involving the above

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:53 am 
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Noted. :)

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Ginger wrote:
So to clarify,
  • The player declares "Ground attack" and passes
  • The Transport makes it's approach move to a point somewhere on the battlefield. This does not have to be a point where there is an enemy formation is within Arc, Range and LoS of it's weapons.
  • Defensive Flak and then enemy Flak are resolved.
  • The transport then decides whether to land, and whether to assault or shoot.


At the risk of belaboring this... Some are in agreement with this, but others are saying this is how they do it:

  • The player declares "Ground Attack" or "Air Assault"
  • The Transport makes it's approach move to a point somewhere on the battlefield. This does not have to be a point where there is an enemy formation is within Arc, Range and LoS of it's weapons.
  • Defensive Flak and then enemy Flak are resolved.
  • The transport then decides whether to land

In any case, I think a clarifying FAQ that says both are valid (just agree upon it in the 5-min warmup) would be good.
Well, except it is not entirely correct I would say. You don't have to declare an air assault - only a ground attack. You decide whether to land - and if you land, whether to shoot or air assault - later. I think the rulebook is fairly clear on that (by rulebook standards!).

In practice, it usually makes no difference and so people might [i]say[i] "air assault", but it sometimes does make a difference, affecting both the attacker's and the defender's choices. For example before I assault I want to see how effective flak is first, or whether my opponent triggers his CAP. This happens surprisingly often in my games since I like to use multiple air transports. I don't consider it fair for me to declare an air assault, then change my mind once he CAPs me. So if you formally allow people to declare "air assault", what does then mean for their ability to decide lter to use the "correct" way and thus change their mind?

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:56 pm 
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However we resolve this, I hope we can preserve some fundamental cornerstones:

* the opposing player isn't privy to the internal workings of the pilot's mind thus would not know they were going to land and/or assault until the craft does in fact land and/or assault. In other words, the player on the receiving end of the potential assault does not know "aircraft at table edge" whether the craft will assault or land and should not be basing their response to "incoming aircraft" on whether or not it is landing and whether or not it is assaulting by land or air or at all (maybe it is just dropping off troops and schedadling away.)

* the piloting player makes situational decisions like any good pilot and will land and/or assault based on the situation once they are at the "potential" hot LZ; therefore, the pilot should not have to commit to landing nor assaulting at table edge and activation therefore no declaration of 'assault' necessary at table edge.

* player moving his air unit SHOULD have to move his air unit to where he would unload the troops, THEN decide whether to land, decide whether to unload, decide whether to assault. I'd be concerned if I can move the craft to some empty spot on the map, and then move it again to unload at a hot LZ once I had made a situational decision -- doesn't flow right. Flowing right feels more like "activate successfully to move inbound to LZ, move to LZ, assess Flak results and decide to touch down or not."


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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Kyrt wrote:
I think the rulebook is fairly clear on that (by rulebook standards!).


If that were the case we wouldn't be talking about it, hence the need for a FAQ.

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:48 pm 
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Ironhelm wrote:
However we resolve this, I hope we can preserve some fundamental cornerstones:

* the opposing player isn't privy to the internal workings of the pilot's mind thus would not know they were going to land and/or assault until the craft does in fact land and/or assault. In other words, the player on the receiving end of the potential assault does not know "aircraft at table edge" whether the craft will assault or land and should not be basing their response to "incoming aircraft" on whether or not it is landing and whether or not it is assaulting by land or air or at all (maybe it is just dropping off troops and schedadling away.)

* the piloting player makes situational decisions like any good pilot and will land and/or assault based on the situation once they are at the "potential" hot LZ; therefore, the pilot should not have to commit to landing nor assaulting at table edge and activation therefore no declaration of 'assault' necessary at table edge.

* player moving his air unit SHOULD have to move his air unit to where he would unload the troops, THEN decide whether to land, decide whether to unload, decide whether to assault. I'd be concerned if I can move the craft to some empty spot on the map, and then move it again to unload at a hot LZ once I had made a situational decision -- doesn't flow right. Flowing right feels more like "activate successfully to move inbound to LZ, move to LZ, assess Flak results and decide to touch down or not."


Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:07 pm 
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To be fair Dave, I agree with Kyrt and Ironhelm that the rules seem to be relatively clear. The only option is to declare a "Ground attack" and the transport only decides whether to land, assault or shoot after enemy CAP and AA is resolved.

That said, I don't object to putting together a FAQ to cover this if it is deemed necessary.


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