Surely the lack of BP:s must work against optimal assaults when the opposing formations bunch up close?

Regarding Vultures, Deathstrikes and the sort, I would like to remind people that a Warlord is nothing like a Reaver.

With 6 shields and plenty of activations in the army allowing the Warlord activation to take place when wanted, if the enemy has anything that can seriously damage the Warlord, which is really not that common in a blind-chosen list, you can just wait for him to activate his formation that reduces shields (like vultures), then regroup to get your shields back, thereby pretty much neutralizing the offensive effort of the opponent. You also are goind to hide your warlord from vultures, etc.

In practice, what seems obvious on the paper often isn't.

Regarding lack of BP and attacking large formations, do bear in mind that Scouts have infiltrate and therefore can charge through densely packed enemies and multiple scout formations make for a big assaulting formation.
Of course large Boyz mobs are a problem, but Scouts have 1x Hvy bolter per stand, which on sustain averages out a lot of hits. Also, even a huge infantry formation falls when properly prepped and assaulted.

SM, with their rating of SR5, do hold the initiative and dictate most often than not where the engagements take place.

Finally, terminator formations or even a Thunderhawk assault can prove the harder hitting force the scouts need to break the toughest formations (if warlording them is not an option).

To conclude, this list is a lot meaner in practice than it looks on paper. I am just posting it to share some tactical insight on a list we built and find a pretty optimal use of the Codex Marines.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

I agree that the premis behind the Warlord in a high activation list is sound, except perhaps against lists that have the means to deal with it (Deathstrikes anyone?), or where the enemy has better FF like the Eldar and can deal with the massed scout formations.

It could be really fun to match your Warlord + scouts up to my 16 activation, 3K Eldar pop-corn list that took to one of the E-UK tournaments:-
350 Aspect Host (8x S. Hawks + 2x Exarchs)
250 Falcon troupe + 2 Firestorms
250 Falcon troupe + 2 Firestorms
250 Falcon troupe + 2 Firestorms
250 Falcon troupe + 2 Firestorms
175 Night Spinner troupe
175 Night Spinner troupe
175 Night Spinner troupe
175 Night Spinner troupe
150 Guardian Host + 2 H. weapons
150 Guardian Host + 2 H. weapons
150 Guardian Host + 2 H. weapons
200 Guardian Host + 2 H. W. + Support W.
100 Rangers (4)
100 Rangers (4)
100 Rangers (4)

or this 12 activation, 3K list where everything skims (except the guardians), which is a cut down version of a 4K list that I took to Britcon
400 Aspect Host (8x S. Spears + Aut + Ex)
200 Jetbikes + 1 Vyper
200 Jetbikes + 1 Vyper
200 Jetbikes + 1 Vyper
200 Jetbikes + 1 Vyper
200 Jetbikes + 1 Vyper
200 Jetbikes + 1 Vyper
350 Guardian Host + Wave S.
350 Guardian Host + Wave S.
350 Guardian Host + Wave S.
175 Night Spinner troupe
175 Night Spinner troupe

Nevertheless, I agree that Marine scouts are very usefull, and have the potential to pull some nasty surprises en-masse (like a number of other formations) which is one of the reasons why the lists are carefully checked for 'spammability', and why the Eldar jetbike armour was reduced as a direct result of the above list

The Inquisitor responsible for this should be sent to Commorragh for reeducation

The game would definitely be interesting against those pop-Corning Eldar lists, especially the second. I suppose you would use the scout list in a more defensive manner, using cover and overwatch to hinder the Eldar plan, and count on your vastly Superior resilience to win the day. But its a tough call.

That second list has no AA at all? Is that correct?

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

SM scouts are great units with terrific rules at a bargain price, made "spammable" by being core. It's interesting to see them being used like this.

Have you considered pushing the scout+activation theme one step further, by which I mean that this:



Becomes this:
- 8 Scout Detachments, 2 with a Captain.
- 3 Warhound Scout Titans
- 1 Thunderbolt Squadron
2300 pts.

3 Warhounds obviously aren't the same as a Warlord having a different set of strengths and weaknesses, but that's already 12 activations with 700pts left to spend (one of the additions would need to be BTS sized).

We have not tried it. Perhaps it is even more powerful.

The advantage of the Warlord is the fact that it denies BTS from the enemy 90% of the time and provides tons of AT fire which the scouts lack.

There is also the psychological effect

But I will definitely give the Warhounds a go.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

Oh, but you misunderstand my point I believe. When I say bunch up, I mean base to base contact e.g. |====| or a 2x4 formation sandwiched by two stands. Sure, your 3 scout units will eat through an SL infantry unit or a Siege Infantry unit, but not without casualties and not for a points advantage. Add OW and it starts to get really messy?

A bit of a moot point anyway I guess since adding a few BP:s will counter the defensive formation aptly.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. Could you clarify?

I had understood that you meant that clipping assaults were difficult if the opponent placed his units right. That's undoubtly true.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

From back in the day, a rather successful list that I used to run with:

Regiment HQ

Mechanised Infantry Company
Griffon Battery
Hydra

Infantry Company
Hydra

SHT Company

Vultures

Rough Riders - Bikes

Rough Riders - Bikes

Sentinels

Sentinels

Deathstrike Missile Launchers

Hydra Battery

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

This is part of what makes the game great for me, players develop lists that cause problems then opponents adapt and evolve their own tactics and lists as a counter.

Or we just look back 10 years to what we were playing with then

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Sorry, yes you got it. That's the main advantage. As a guard player I was also trying to keep as many stands as possible out of base contact with the assaulting formations while still being eliglible to usa their attacks.

That is correct. The intention of the list is high speed and making long-range assaults on enemy formations (~50cms away) by leaving the guardians in their transport as much as possible. There are 4x Commanders in the army, which with the S. Spears are actually sufficient to mount winning assaults on most titans (though perhaps the Warlord might be a bit too big . . )

Totally agree here - and one of the reasons why 'flexible' lists that can support many strategies and play-styles are better than those with only one or two.

And that is one of the reasons that the E-UK championship Database is so usefull - because you can resurrect some old lists.

That said, having a "killer" list is not sufficient; you have to know how to play the list, and how to counter the opponents strategies.

One last thought, 200 points is the watershed cost for any E:A formation. above this, you get the standard formations that make up the vast bulk of lists typically with between 8-12 formations. Under 200points formations become very 'spamable' and so need some form of constraint.
So, this is why the scout + Warlord list will tend to work better than trying the same thing with Landspeeders.

First of all I'd say that the marine list isn't really a popcorn list in the traditional sense since it doesn't rely so heavily on activations. Lordotmilk alluded to this already, but IMO the power of the list is that it mitigates the traditional disadvantages of both the "big war engine" and popcorn lists.

A good strategy for dealing with a big war engine list is to ignore it and concentrate on eliminating activations, giving you a clear advantage in the objective-grabbing stages. This doesn't really work against this marine list because:
a) there are too many scouts to eliminate
b) scouts aren't brittle in the way that most cheap/popcorn formations are
c) once broken marines are very difficult to actually destroy (ATSKNF means BMs don't work very well)
d) once broken they recover and become useful activations again in turn 3

And popcorn lists usually lack overall power to break the back of the enemy army, give away BTS.

For example, my memory of the tournaments you have taken your Eldar lists to are that they didn't actually do very well. Eldar popcorns are easy to whittle down and Eldar suffer from attrition very badly. They also need the supreme commander.

Overall I think the posted list is a very good list, which serves to highlight how good scouts are. And I must agree with Lordotmilk that I do find it a shame that scouts (and land speeders for that matter) are so common in marine lists, whilst other line troops don't get a run out as often. Thanks largely to the lack of an enforced list structure in the codex. If tacticals were a core choice I suspect we'd see something different

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