Someone should take on the championship of this important list.

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Pati,

Funny you've came to the same conclusion I did on this. I've pulled about 6 games recently with them and found them to be better priced at 300 for 8. The use of THawk transporters at the standard 100 points each is not breaking anything either. I wanted to get a better handle on the list before I started publicly BatRep'ing them but looks like I am not alone here . I wonder though if the Devs should be increased to 275 as the LR Redeemer drop could be nasty.

Honestly with those tweaks I think the list is ready for serious testing for approved status.

So my suggestions are:
1. Add Thunderhawk Transporters @100 each
2. Assault should be 225 for 6. Upgrade with +2Assault for 75 points
3. Compensate for 1&2 with Devestator at 275

and possibly (needs a lot of thought)
4. Death company linear increase

4 Death Company Tactical units with 1 Chaplain plus transport @275
OR
4 Death Company Assault units with 1 Chaplain @300
Upgrades Dreadnoughts, Stormraven

For every 1000 points above 3000 and additional unit must be purchased @75

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Ben, your thoughts would be welcome considering you've previously shepherded this list.

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Nice, I'm not alone with my opinion! Next year we plan to have an Eastern-European NetEA GT, and I plan to use BA. I played a lot with Eldar, but I like the fluff of the BA chapter. I like to use 3-4 assault marine formations, with usually 6 units, to have enough activations and the for the feeling of the rush on the enemy

Stormravens are not fit for this concept, because I use them for fast, skimming transporters, not as a mobile long range fire support vehicle. They are not fit for this role, because of their "singel shot" rule. Next to a FREE rhino (which moves also 35cm), they are way to expensive -75p -the cost of the Land Raider -the normal LR has 4+ RA, 2x AT4+ which is avaible in EVERY turn -not just one time.

With the Stormravens, I want to have the cargo in the middle of the enemy army as fast as possible, so they have to double -loosing the 60cm Sustained Fire opportunity for their Singe Shot weapon.. Their only advantage is that they can carry furioso dreadnoughts

Being fluffwise, i'm usually not using devastators, I use Assault Marines instead of them

The BA are particularly known for using them with their LR assaults, hence the need for the transporter IMO. In fact the BA army in 40k is, or was at least at one point, the only army that could deep strike Land Raiders on the board, ostensibly via the THawk Transporter. So yeah... fluff

I'll admit I keep the Stormravens as Death Company movers when I need some dreads to back them up. I don't leverage them all that much I admit. Ben probably has suggestions on their use.

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I can't wait for the updated BA list

At the Hungarian Games Day, the loyal legions defended the Emperor's Palace. He was also there, with his brothers!

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm31 ... G_1815.jpg

Oh man that Sanguinius is AWESOME

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Scouts have a different role in Blood Angel armies, than in other chapters.

Predators are quite expensive (my opinion is the same), but they move +5cm, and have an IC attack at close range, so they are powerful enough, to not let BA players use swarms of Baal Predators Altough they can be cheaper

The dreads are special units, with +2x MW CC attacks, they are a very useful parts of the BA army -I use as many Furioso as I can, I like their concept! They can be transported by Stormravens, and you can can use more of them (3) than other chapters -They are superb units, when you drop them in the middle of the enemy army!

So, they are all right -except the EXPENSIVE Baal Predators - but they allow BA players to use powerful unit combinations, which has to be limited somehow -the price is just one thing!

Agreed though I feel they are largely balanced by the lack of Titan support. 275 is the sweet spot IMO. However I can live with them at 300 provided I could THawk them in.


Are you using them outside of Death Company?

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Yes. In a Strike Cruiser, I use 3 formations -DC tacticals, and 2 tactical. The DC with 2, the tacticals with 1 Furioso -I'm not sure that in the current list, all the tacticals also have the Frenzied rule -but in the previous ones just the Dreadnoughts and the DC had it -so they helped to activate the formation after the Drop attack.

The Cruiser is my first activation -drop 3 formations, 3 deathwind attacks (if good positioned 3 BM's/ enemy units), and 1 DC attack -If I retain the iniative.
the next activations will be the 2 tacticals, with the help ofthe Frenzied Dradnoughts -I played a few times with this combination -the Furioso attacks and activation helper rules are nice -I used them in this way, with a lot of assault marine formations -they are quite nice against static, armies -like the IG. Only they have to survive the first turn

Only Death Company and Furioso have Frenzied in the current list.

Hrmmm interesting. I usually leverage Tacticals as a centerline formation. Good to hold a position to pivot other units from but I am less impressed with them as drop troops in a mono force vs supporting Devs with a Chappy. I shall try out the above and see if I can gain more skillz

I really hate to see Assault formations trying to hump it across the board. Granted they have excellent speed but you get to see them coming a mile away. In the BA list their larger size can actually be a hindrance as you can only fit one formation in a THawk, hence why I'd like to see the base drop to 275 which then gently leads you to taking the Assault upgrade. As it stands, it's too expensive for a unit that in all likelihood is going to experience some serious casualties and must be careful to not become the BTS.

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All true, but I like to play in an over-agressive style

The tacticals are better than Devastators, because of the 2 more bases -and I like to use them in CC also -It's 4+, usually better than most FF based armies -better than tanks for example -the Furosos also good against expensive RA units If you have a lot of fast moving Assault Formations with March, it will give the opponent a lot of possible targets -if he looks after the drop guys, the assaults will survive -if not, the drop guys can cause more trouble! If he tries to fight everything in the same time, the best for you

With a good drop pod concentration, you can help yourself, and put enough BM's to the enemy, so worse activation, weaker shooting

A very risky tactic, isn't it?

Just want to add the following to the discussion:

Storm ravens are OTT with their current loadout.

Try dropping 4 formations on the enemy with Land speeder/scout/Terminator support and perhaps a T-hawk or two filled with assault marines.

BA should have 4 -unit assault marines like everyone else, but with a 2 - unit upgrade available to all the infantry formations except scouts.

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Jump in, the water's warm!


Cool. Care to share some details?


So... Codex Marines?


BA sure as hell should NOT have 6 unit strong Devs. Their whole schtick is knda the Assault Marine at the expense of Mechanicum support. Kinda obviates the need for the list and probably better using Codex AKA Air Assault in that case, no? (and that's always something to consider-not every unique snowflake needs a list afterall )

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4 Stormravens formations dropped in from Spacecraft is nothing Codex Marines can do.

Add in 2 Terminator formations, and most 3k armies will go down in pièces between the terminator assaults and the Stormraven support + bloodstrike Missiles. Add in Thunderhawk support and I challenge you to win with any army that has any vehicle at all.

To be precise, I think 4 Bloodstrike missiles on each Stormraven is insane Firepower and OTT, even if it is not dropped by spacecraft.

Regarding my proposition for an assault upgrade, I was proposing two assault marine units as an upgrade for any BA formation, to represent Vétérans of the chapter using Jetpacks regularly, and definitely not 2 Devastator units as an upgrade.

That way, you can have 2x4 assault marines for a thunderhawk loadout, or 1x6 for a land crawling attack.

Regarding the Raptors, I totally agree with Pari, but that is really a Raptor issue more than an assault marine issue. There is no reason for raptors to have 4+ FF except for the fact that Black Legion was very badly designed originally.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell