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Net Epic Evolution Playtesting

 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Indeed! Let's do this! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:31 am 
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primarch wrote:
Charge lets you move farther and fire but before you move and at a penalty.


I've been considering about this a lot, although sadly I haven't had any games to playtest this. I'm thinking that for Titans on charge my suggestion that they only get to fire before they move may be too prohibitive.

Under the current proposal, in Turn 1 in particular, Titans may not be in range to hit anything when they deploy. Allowing them to fire at some point during movement would guarantee them the opportunity to get into range of something (assuming they have at least 1 weapon with 75cm range).

I'd like to suggest that in addition to what we discussed above, they can fire at any point within their standard (ie advance) Move Rate. They still get a -1 on to hit rolls for being on charge. However, they also incur an additional penalty in that they lose half of their charge movement for firing (equivalent to 75% of total movement on charge).

To summarize:
A Titan on charge can fire before movement or at any point during movement provided the attack is made within the Titan's standard Move Rate, incurring the -1 to hit penalty (for snap fire). The Titan may complete the rest of its charge move after the attack has been resolved but the distance the Titan could travel for the charge aspect of movement is halved. If the Titan elects not to fire at all, it may move it's full charge rate as normal.

e.g.: Reaver on charge orders with 2 Turbo Laser Destructors has the option to:

a) Fire at enemy units during the first 20cm of movement with a -1 to hit. The Reaver's total move this turn will be 30cm (75% of total Charge movement)

OR

b) Make a standard charge move of 40cm. No firing is permitted.


I dunno, is this muddying the waters too much?

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Hi!

Let's try it as I originally mentioned, firing at any point of the charge at -1 to hit.

We'll see how that works.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Hi Primarch,
First I just wanted to say it's been too long!
It's the firing beyond the advance rate point that was unbalancing all of my games. Do you want to playtest with the original fix of charge units can only fire before they move with the -1 to hit?

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:05 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
Hi Primarch,
First I just wanted to say it's been too long!
It's the firing beyond the advance rate point that was unbalancing all of my games. Do you want to playtest with the original fix of charge units can only fire before they move with the -1 to hit?


Hi!

Could try both ways. -1 to hit is pretty disadvantageous to begin with, so I'm not all that worried about a charge move (which is not a double move under my rule change suggestions above). So I'd let them fire at any point of move with the penalty.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:45 am 
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Playtested NEE again today, this time with the -1 to hit charging units and also with units being ordered as they were activated. Note that, as is normal, no units could fire on charge orders.

It was a 5,000 point battle between Squats and Eldar with a lot of serious firepower on the table.

Turn 1 ended with a Revenant Titan, Wave Serpents and a Grav Tank unit destroyed along with a Defender host and Scorpions unit broken, while the Squats lost a Collosus and 2 Overlord Airships (to break the company). The score was Eldar 32VPs, Squats 33VPs (albeit the Squats failed to capture one of their objectives).

Turn 2 concluded with the Eldar losing their Warlock Titan, Tempest host broken, Exarchs shot to pieces and 6 Scorpion Stands obliterated by a Rad bomb! However, the Eldar also took out 2 Leviathans, and broke the Squat biker company, Iron Eagle Gyrocopters wing and the Goliath Mega-Cannon battery, plus a pitiful squad of Rhinos! Final score: Eldar 57VPs, Squats 56VPs (although 1 objective still unclaimed).

Mass carnage and great fun, we both had a ball. Given the sheer meat grinder experience of this battle, we both agreed the draw was the right and fair result. I can at least take heart that I didn't suffer another loss and I ended up with the higher VPs total (if only just)! I'm getting closer to ending this horrible run of results! On the other hand, my remaining Revenant was very lucky to still be running at the end of the battle and thanks to some sneakiness with Deep Striking Swooping Hawks I managed to steal an extra objective after losing one elsewhere on the board.

The ordering on the go was quite refreshing for a change and the -1 to firing at charging units did make it trickier to catch units on the move. From a tactical point of view, with the modifiers already in place for First Fire units the system seems to be working very well and there is a good variation in to hit rolls as a result. The one downside is that there is slightly more thought required to add up all the to hit modifiers but I'd hardly say it was taxing. We'll be persevering with these changes for now at least!

Apologies to everyone for the lack of pics, we decided just to put all our focus into the game today rather than slowing it down by documenting it. Maybe next time!

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:50 am 
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Hi!

Could you surmise what rules you were using, so as to be on the same page.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:31 pm 
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I made this summary table a little while ago. It's pretty much the rules I'm using, although I've since removed the orders phase. Units now are ordered as they are activated.

One interesting note/problem about this is that because units are now ordered as they are activated, if you engage a unit in close combat which has not yet been activated, you can be sure that unit will be placed on FF orders when it comes around to its activation (unless it is a few pinning classes above, in which case it can wander off if desired). To be honest it wasn't a massive deal but I can appreciate the concerns raised in another friend that it does mean that you can't catch players out as easily (thinking of units on Advance orders being engaged here). My take on that is that even if a unit were preparing to Advance, would they really fail to fire at an enemy trying to engage them in Close Combat?

Comments and criticisms welcomed as usual!


Attachments:
Evolution Summary Sheet.pdf [224.82 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:21 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
I made this summary table a little while ago. It's pretty much the rules I'm using, although I've since removed the orders phase. Units now are ordered as they are activated.

One interesting note/problem about this is that because units are now ordered as they are activated, if you engage a unit in close combat which has not yet been activated, you can be sure that unit will be placed on FF orders when it comes around to its activation (unless it is a few pinning classes above, in which case it can wander off if desired). To be honest it wasn't a massive deal but I can appreciate the concerns raised in another friend that it does mean that you can't catch players out as easily (thinking of units on Advance orders being engaged here). My take on that is that even if a unit were preparing to Advance, would they really fail to fire at an enemy trying to engage them in Close Combat?

Comments and criticisms welcomed as usual!


Hi!

Not a huge problem. A unit that has not acted and engaged in close combat should be able to fire at it in defense. It adds a layer of strategy. You really should charge units ready to fire anyway... ;)

Thanks for the summary!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:37 pm 
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No probs, once again apologies for a lack of proper report & pics. Unfortunately I think this might be the way my games will go for the foreseeable future. The fact that I wasn't documenting every made play more fluid and the general experience more enjoyable.

I'm quietly satisfied that the system seems to be working fairly well and delivering a very enjoyable experience. I hope that doesn't come across as sounding smug or arrogant! My nephew is definitely of the opinion that he doesn't want to go back to the traditional method of play so I'm happy with that!

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:38 pm 
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PS Did it turn out that I was playing it the way you thought?

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:59 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
No probs, once again apologies for a lack of proper report & pics. Unfortunately I think this might be the way my games will go for the foreseeable future. The fact that I wasn't documenting every made play more fluid and the general experience more enjoyable.

I'm quietly satisfied that the system seems to be working fairly well and delivering a very enjoyable experience. I hope that doesn't come across as sounding smug or arrogant! My nephew is definitely of the opinion that he doesn't want to go back to the traditional method of play so I'm happy with that!


Hi!

Having used the earlier versions I would agree it works very well. :)

I haven't played "stock" net epic in many years, so its no surprise I like this better. ;)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:00 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
PS Did it turn out that I was playing it the way you thought?


Hi!

Yes, I only wanted the changes to be surmised, so they don't get lost in the shuffle of doing other things. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:06 pm 
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I was surprised when I wrote out that summary sheet for my own reference that the vast bulk of information is the same as on previous summary sheets. For what feels like a fairly radical change to the system, the turn summary hasn't changed much.

Obviously I had been trying out some other rules changes but those related to the Titan Plasma rules which regrettably I have not continued with and DS's Titan Damage tables which I have. Neither of these are required to play Evolution but are interesting to try out in conjunction with Evolution's rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Playtesting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:29 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
I was surprised when I wrote out that summary sheet for my own reference that the vast bulk of information is the same as on previous summary sheets. For what feels like a fairly radical change to the system, the turn summary hasn't changed much.

Obviously I had been trying out some other rules changes but those related to the Titan Plasma rules which regrettably I have not continued with and DS's Titan Damage tables which I have. Neither of these are required to play Evolution but are interesting to try out in conjunction with Evolution's rules.


Hi!

DS, damage tables are very good and I anticipate using them in exclusion to the original ones. They are definitely much, much better.

As for plasma rules, well, sometimes good ideas don't work in practice. ;)

Primarch

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