Parintachin wrote:
splash wrote:
Parintachin wrote:
I've had many many great hours playing Warmacine, but lately, it's having the same problems as Infinity - there's just too much of it. Also, powercreep seems to be finally settling in.
Might be a bit off topic, but can you explain how you're seeing this? I'm not disagreeing, I've been seeing it for a while now, since Mk II took off. But lately it's been fairly obvious.
To avoid a derailment, you can PM if you wish.
Thanks.
Warmachine was a passion of mine, and I've played at least a couple hundred 1ed games. I have a huge protectorate army, and fair sized Cygnar, Trollbloods and Minions.
And until the very last books of 1ed, I've always felt that no matter what cheese my opponents pulled, my Protectorate guys at least had a fair chance. I also felt that it was skill on the table, not listbuilding, that determined who won the day. But the last book for each faction really tipped the scales; a few completely crazy choices were made - Molik Karn, I'm looking at you - and I lost confidence in the system.
Took a short break, then came back during the 2ed beta process. And I really liked what PP did with that, and at first glance, 2ed was the best balanced game Ever. Played a lot of games that summer, great fun (o:
But then, subtle shifts happened.
Our local meta had moved to extremes. Now, a Khador army can just as easily be tonz of heavy cavalry or 6-7 stupidly heavy warjacks as it can be a swarm of nearly unhittable light infantry, and it has become impossible to keep up with all the interaction of the abilities of all the armies. It feels like the game is won more when listbuilding that on the table; like a game of rock-paper-scissors with a clear bias on whoever has most time to trawl thru armybooks.
And that's really never been my thing, and I do not have time to do it any more.
On top of that, it really seems that each time PP releases something new, it has to be more over the top than the last one, opening a swath of more crazy combos.
I have to agree with nearly all of what you said. My other complaint is that from the beginning, this was supposed to be a Warjack game. They were the cream of the crop. As time went on, Warjacks seemed to become less viable and the infantry hordes dominated. I hated that. Plus the over-zealous competitive nature of how the game is played around here actually caused a lot of arguments between close friends...our cliq hasn't really been the same since.
I won the first Slam at the Ram tourney here in the Indy area; it was great fun, the last time it was fun to play Warmachine. I could have won the second one the following year, but was sick from Meniere's, and very drunk (the Ram has it's own micro-brewery). So I came in third. Only one other time I played in a competitive environment, and that was a cliq-tourney a couple of years ago. I threw the game because my opponent--a close friend of mine--was becoming so agitated at losing that he was visibly shaking and near tears; he boldly claimed that he was going to crush me, and it was going to be his easiest game of the night. I threw it because I was done playing at that time, even though I was one turn from winning. It was more important to him that he win, than just playing and having fun.
I have recognized the power creep for a while now, but my complaints fell on deaf ears. Similar to 40K/Fantasy (but not quite on the staggering level of GW's crappy products), the new stuff released has to be able to be better the old stuff--it's mainly a marketing thing, why would anyone buy the new stuff is it can't be better than the old stuff? Why would anyone bother when they can just stick with the old stuff? There isn't much balance between new releases and old ones now. It's as obvious as it is sad.
I also have seen a large jump in the size of games. Smaller ones are more fun, and more of a challenge; you have to pick what you think is the right lists. Larger games, which my friends around here are a huge fan of, aren't much of a challenge because you can take a model or squad for every occasion. It kills the strategy involved.
And one other thing is Privateer Press's conduct of business. Remember "Full Metal Fantasy" and "if you don't like it, go play with your plastic miniatures"? Yeah, they have their plastic miniatures now...which are hit-and-miss on quality, and more expensive than the metal ones. They are becoming a smaller version of GW--though while I hate GW, I am still fond of PP; it's just that they're not the same fun company they were, and their product is becoming quite stale. I understand that a business has to conduct business to survive and make a profit, but when you flat out have to go against your original way of doing that business (which is okay), but then claim that none of that was ever said, and then intentionally go through your forums to squash anyone point that out, you've failed and have become what you supposedly have hated.
Small games (35 points or less), non-competitive atmospheres, among real friends only--that's honestly how Warmachine/Hordes should be played now. Of course, this is just my opinion, and anyone can disagree with me. I'm fine with that.
Rant over.
EDITED TO ADD: Oh, I still love my friends, it's just that without Warmachine, I feel that we'd be closer than we are now--for one thing we'd be reaching out and trying new games if it weren't for Privateer Press's games; we would also be hanging out more just to hang out and enjoy each other's company, instead of making almost all of our time together about Warmachine. It seems that it's the only thing that binds us together as a group anymore. I may be a bit harsh in my rant, but it's because I'm frustrated with the situation, and I can't do anything about it. I'm the odd-man-out in our group now because I don't fall in line and love Warmachine unconditionally.
Rant re-over.
