Had another game today and the Iyanden is a really tough army if you ask my opponent
I still have some questions/thoughts.

1. Where and how do I submit battlereports so the army can be moved to approved status? (And how does it work, approving and all that...?)

2. Why is the Wraithseer (and Spiritseer) so much better than a "normal" commander? (you get EA+1, invulnerable save, faarsight and +1 initiative) and by being a CH he gets 4+ reinforced and becomes fearless... and still costs the same as I belive. If I remember the fluff right the Spiritseer is similar to a Warlock and the Wraithseer more like a Psyker-Wraithlord. It would make more sense to me if the were bought like a separate unit. A Faarser and Wraithlord with the +1 initiative or something like that?

3. The Living few has really never limited me in any way. Do we need it or does it need to be more restrictive?

4. Read some of the "new" fluff in the Iyanden supplemant and I would really like to see some of the knights return to this list (but I think we need to take something out if they do). Today was my first game with Revenant Titans and titans had the right Iyanden feel if you ask me (also the Revenants felt really powerful so they will be going to war a lot) Perhaps dropping some airplanes or aspects?

That's all for today

/Uven

1) Feel free to report on your impressions here or submit a full BatRep in the Battle Reports subforum. The NetEA CRaP (Charter, Responsibilities, and Procedures) can be found here.

2) Spiritseers have always been ICs or joined a squad of Wraithguard in the past. Thus they made more sense as a character than as a unit, which would be more representative of a group of psykers. The Wraithseer costs 25 points more than an Autarch, and the same as the IG version. SC has a pretty well defined cost at this point, in the 75-100 range depending on the army and ancillary upgrades.

3) I'm not certain. It is fluffy, but it does cause confusion and seems to be redundant at times. I plan on looking closer at this once my Codex arrives (hopefully in the next few days) and I start looking closely at how I want to go forward with Iyanden.

4) Wraithknights will likely be making an appearance, see #3 for details.

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Just an update: the Codex should (maybe) arrive next Wed. The LGS has had a hell f a time getting ahold of the new 'dex. I'll start going through stuff then.

After thinking somewhat about TLF, it needs to be kept at least in part due to the presence of the Guardian Warhost. More soon(ish).

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Thanks! Looking forward to see what the codex brings

Being on the recieving end of the smackdown the Iyanden list can put down ever quite so often Imust say as it stands right now it feels alittle overpowered.
Theres no real weakness in it and having 4+ RA AND Fearless troops is really hard to deal with!!

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Formation cost is a big weakness for Iyanden. Eldar typically need to out-activate their opponents for best effect, and this is difficult where you are effiectively required at 3k to take two core formations that start at 350 and top out at 750 points.

Wraithguard are very resilient, no question, but they are also very slow and changing this (adding Wave Serpents) doubles the cost of the formation. Even when they are mounted, the transports are the most vulnerable unit, and therefore the formation often needs to decide between moving at walking pace and abandoning a 50 pt stand.

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Well with T8 and W6 the Wraithknight has double the Wounds of a Wraithlord.
My understanding is that in Wh40k if a Monstrous Creature has at least T6 in Epic it counts as one unit per full 6 Wounds.
For comparison: A Trygon is T6 W6 and counts as DC2 War Engine in Epic.
4+ Reinfoced Armour is a given.

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Finally got my Codex in today. That took forever!

Apparently when I bought Office to replace the version I lost when I had to reinstall my OS it didn't come with Publisher, so bear with me here until I get a new copy.


First I want to address new units: the Wraithblade, Wraithknight, Hemlock, and Crimson Hunter.

The Crimson Hunter adds nothing to what the Nightwing already does, and is armed pretty much identically (it effectively switches a pair of ShuriCannon for a pair of Starcannon). It therefore doesn't make the cut. The Hemlock would end up as an inferior version of the Phoenix. I could add it if there was a great clamour for it, but I don't see why it would be necessary myself.


That brings us to the new Wraith constructs. Both have potential to add to the Eldar (and specifically Iyanden) arsenal.

First the Wraithblades, which are CC-oriented Wraithguard. The option for two Ghostswords is boring. Moving on, the option with a Ghostaxe (1x S7 AP2 attack) and Powerfield (4+ Invul) has potential. My thinking is a free swap with Wraithguard.
--
Wraithblades Type/INF Speed/15cm AR/4+ CC/3+ FF/6+
Weapons Ghostaxe, (Base), Assault Weapon, EA+1, MW
Notes Reinforced Armor, Invulnerable Save, Fearless
--
Potential issues are that they have RA and INV saves together, largely as dictated by the equipment. Also that they are close combat beasts, with two CC3+ attacks including a MW. This is a bit of fudging on my part. Removing the EA (not the MW) from the Ghostaxe is an option and would be more true to 40k, but it would reduce the price, and drive the minimum cost of a Spirit Warrior Warhost down, which is not necessarily desirable.

Second is the Wraithknight. BL is largely correct in his assumptions of DC and armor. The model has WS4, S10, I5, and A4, making it a beast in CC. It is armed with two Heavy Weapons (abstracted to Scatter Lasers) and two Heavy D-Cannon, a 36” S10 AP2 Assault 1 weapon with Distort, which means to wound rolls of 6 are auto-wound and cause Instant Death to infantry and are an automatic Penetrating Hit for Vehicles. No Holofields, though it is a Jump Monstrous Creature.
--
Wraithknight Type/WE Speed/20cm AR/4+ CC/5+* FF/5+
Weapons 2x Scatter Laser 30cm AP5+/AT5+
2x Heavy D-Cannon 30cm MW4+
NotesDC2, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Jump Jets, Fearless. Crit: Destroyed
--
So this lands squarely between the Revenant and Wraithlord unless I miss my mark. One thing I’m unsure of is the CC score. It averages the same as a Wraithlord and worse than a Revenant. I think a more accurate representation would be CC4+, better than a Wraithlord and even with a Revenant, but this is probably a more balanced choice. I’m looking at starting in the 150 range per for these.

Soon I’ll give a look at what I think might change in the Iyanden list, but before that I want to give everyone their chance to have a discussion of these thoughts.

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I wouldn't give the Ghostaxes MW. +1EA would be enough.

There is a CC-version of the Wraithknight. Could have Invilnerable Save and CC4+ +1EAMW but the Heavy D-Cannons would be lost.

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Not sure what to make of this yet. There is a lot of units that's not up to date with 40k and now that we are trying to add new ones it becomes complicated

The Wraithguard (and the wraithcannon), would it be: 15cm 2x MW5+ AND (15cm) (Small Arms), MW, EA(+1) if converted from today's stat-line? (12" S10 AV2 Assault 1, Distort)
I like the idea of close-combat wraithguards but do we need them? I usually take some wraithlords to do the CC...
Giving them MW, inv. save and EA does not make them as good as ordinary Wraitguards, I tend to use mine in supporting fire a lot and the CC Wraithblades would be useless there. Perhaps if you could mix the units but then I think they will be too good.
(Agreeing with BlackLegion that +1EA would be enough stat-wise but then we need to nerf the wraithcannon in the same way or else no one will field them unless they are a lot cheaper)
Perhaps if we take away the aspects or do something major with the list we would need some more CC types?

The Wraithknight looks weak compared to other WE for 150p but I might be wrong. Speed 20cm and short weapon range...Perhaps as a leader or a CH in a Spirit Warrior Troupe?
(Or if we take the Wraithknight as a hint to make use of the old Eldar Knights instead?)

/Uven

There is an Apocalypse formation of 3-5 Wraithknights called a Wraithknight Dreamwalker Squad.

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Not going to say too much in direct response here, I'd like to let the conversation fill out a bit first. I will say that the options for Wraithknights I'm considering are adding them to Spirit Warhosts, Guardian Warhosts, and/or as independant formations. Carry on.

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Feels like I'm ranting but I read some more in the new codex and have some more thoughts...

Spiritseer - I haven't been to up to date with 40k but the new codex suggest a skill more like the Tau Markerlight than the +1 initiative boost we currently have that resemble the old 40k rules. Any thoughts about changing this?
The new skill could be something like:

Spirit Mark: All enemy formations with at least one unit within 30cm range and Line of
Fire (LOF) of at least one Eldar unit with the Spirit mark ability is considered
to be marked. When a Wraithguard, Wraithlord or a Wraithknight is shooting at a marked formation, all ranged firepower
attacks add +1 to their to-hit roll. An Eldar formation may not mark an enemy formation if it
has used the March order during the turn, or if it is broken. This bonus for
shooting at a marked enemy may not be used when making Anti-Aircraft
attacks.

(Still think they are too good. I wasn't comparing them to the Autarch before but to other armies commanders. Giving the Wraithguards +1 initiative is a very good skill and they still have inv save, farsight, supreme commander and MW attack...)

Wraithguards do not have Hit and Run! (Its called Battlefocus in 40k) Hard to implement in the mixed guardian squads. Perhaps by taking the Hit and Run away from the Iyanden list?

The forceshield could give the Wraithblades Thick Rear Armour if we don't want a third save?

I like the Hemlock Wraithfighter but agrees that it does not add anything vital. Perhaps if we change the Spirit Mark

All this is just me thinking out loud so feel free to correct/think otherwise

Thanks for the continued feedback. I was on vacation last week, and got some thinking done. Though it appears I need to look at the Spiritseer rules again before finalizing anything.

You'll notice that while the Compendium has the Init mod, the current version of the list removed it as superfluous. I'm thinking of having it return in a different incarnation. Namely, that Iyanden will get it's own versions of Wraithguard, Wraithblades, and Wraithlords that lack Fearless. However, Spititseers, Wraithseers, and Wraithknights will gain Wraithsight, which will return Fearless to the above units in their formation.

I like the idea of giving Wraithblades TRA instead of an Invul. A strong possibility.

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Oh, and as for my personal take on the role of Spiritseers in the new book, I don't like it.

Instead of taking something strong with a drawback, and allowing the Spiritseer to remove the drawback, they've taken something strong with no drawback and allowed the Spiritseer to improve it more. It's in perfect keeping with the design philosophy of today's 40k, but not in keeping with the (old) idea of Wraithsight.

Wraithsight itself gets only a few passing sentences in the new Wraithlord entry, it's not clear fron the writing whether it is an impediment or just a different method of awareness. The old idea of ghosts made flesh, which still view things through the vague and imperfect senses they had as true spirits and need a dedicated medium to guide then is so much more evocative and believeable to me.

When I have time I'll write up a full post on my thoughts for the next edition...

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