Hi!

Orks.

They do not use plasma rules and are ordered normally. Their krew has no hope of escape from a doomed gargant unless it has some skills to do so.

Crew.

1. Git ta wurk gobbos!. The gargant has pressed some gretchin into service. The gargant now can attempt to put out fires as if it were a mega-garant. If it is a mega-gargant gain +1 to roll to put out fires.

2. Gotcha! The boyz firing this weapon have gotten pretty good at aiming thier gun to great effect. One weapon system gets to re-roll misses and re-roll the aim dice once per hit to determine hit location.

3. Secrit Planz. The Kaptain knows running away is sometimes better than dying. If the Gargant is destroyed roll 1d6 and on 4+ the kaptain and his crew escapes!

4. Ram dat gitz! The Kaptain knows how much orks like speed. If the gargant is on charfge orders he can order it to move THREE times its advance speed into close combat. The enemy titan receives 1 automatic hit to a random location on the hit location template. The gargant gains 1d6 for close combat versus unit with hit location templates.

5. Maniak Mekboyz. The Kaptain has recruited an inspired (and insane) mekbiy to kustomize his gargant. A non-mega gargant titan may add one mega gargant style weapon. A Megagargant adds +1 to the roll to see how many mekboy weapons it can fire.

6. Doos watz I tells ya! The Kaptain is particularly loud and threatening, coaxing maximum efficiency from his krew. The gargant now functions as a command unit and may charge and first fire.

Gargant upgrades

1. Fire hoses. Roll 2d6 for each fire to see if they can be put out.

2. Improved Shielding. The power fields no longer flicker, There is no chance of a penetrating shot.

3. Increased shielding. roll 2d6 and pick the highest. These are additional power fields available to the gargant.

4. Big Gunz. One weapon system receives -1 bonus to save modifier and +1 to damage rolls. Can be taken multiple times.

5. 'eavy armor. All hit locations gain +1 to saves (maximum 0 save)

6. Shielded Magazine. Only a roll of 6 ignites the magazine in spectacular fashion. The table now reads 1-5 (first result) and 6 for the worst result. Results however are NOT rolled immediately, but wait until the end phase.

Thoughts?

Primarch

Hi!

Tyranids.

Bio-titans as organisms don't have plasma reactors, so they get orders normally from the hive mind and use order counters.

Since they have no crew bio-titans get "genetic enchancements" as honors.

1. Massive. This particular brood is much larger and tougher. Roll 1d3 and these are additional wounds added to that biotitan

2. Hyper-reflexive muscles. The powerful muscles around this bio-weapons give it extra punch! The weapon system gains 25cm range and -1 to save modifier and +1 to damage. can take one per weapon system.

3. Alloy laced chitin. The broods chitin has been laced with metal alloys for extra protection. Add +1 to OVERALL save (maximum 1+). It makes then invulnerable to weapons with no save modifier.

4. Primitive neural net. The broods nervous system has been simplified to a degree where it does not register pain anymore making it incredibly resistant to damage. Critical location number is increased by +1 on all locations (maximum 6+).

5. Superlative regeneration. The broods formidable regenerative capabilities are enhanced even further. Regen roll is 3+.

6. Supreme aggression. Its neural net has been modified to receive pleasure when in close combat. The bio-titan gains a +10 movement bonus and receives +2d6 in close combat (cumulative with other bonuses). It receives a +1 bonus for damage rolls in close combat (cumulative with other bonuses).

Thoughts?

Primarch

Hi!

I'll take my time with slann, since I'm not sure what more they need.

Primarch

Top work as usual Primarch! Just one point I thought may need further clarification:-

4. Ram dat gitz! The Kaptain knows how much orks like speed. If the gargant is on charfge orders he can order it to move THREE times its advance speed into close combat. The enemy titan receives 1 automatic hit to a random location on the hit location template. The gargant gains 1d6 for close combat versus unit with hit location templates.

Is there any bonus for the Gargant attacking units without hit location templates?

On a seperate note, I had an idea for a Gargant upgrade as well;

Da grazzcutta: A giant rotating blade has been mounted underneath the Gargant. If the Gargant attempts to overrun enemy units, they are hit on a roll of 4+ (rather than 6 as is usually the case) with a -2 (rather than 0) to save modifier.

No problem if you don't fancy it. It most certainly is daft but the idea made smile. If you did want to use it, I'd suggest combining the two shielding abilities and that way you wouldn't have to waste any of your ideas.

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Hi!

I had not thought about units with no hit location templates. I think something similar to a deathrolla roll over should happen I guess. I'll think about it some more.

Da Grazzcutta would make a sweet mekboy weapon for gargants! I even got a custom made gargant that has one. I'm thinking I'll add this idea to a list of alternate kustom mekboy weapons for gargants to add more variety. Since you got a gargant honor that can get you one mekboy weapon for non mega gargants, this be a very nice option to have!!

Primarch

These lists look good. A few thoughts though.

The Tyranid list needs more entries, otherwise all top-level bio-titans will be identical. At the least, I'd suggest:

7. Synapse. This Bio-Titan has been merged into the Hive Mind more fully, and now acts as a Synapse creature. It generates Command Points equal to it's total cost divided by 100, drop fractions. It also has a Hive Mind radius of 10cm and generates one Hive Mind point.

8. Command. This Bio-Titan has had even more connections made to the Hive Mind and it gains the Command special ability. This ability requires the Synapse upgrade. It's Command Points are unaffected, but it's Hive Mind radius and Hive Mind points are doubled to 20cm and 2 respectively.

If I think up other Tyranid upgrades, I'll post them.

The Eldar lists look good so I hesitate to mention this, but I will anyway. I had a thought while reading that post that the Eldar Titan lists should include abilities equivalent to / based on those of the Aspect Warriors. Perhaps an optional list for Eldar Titans to choose from, but any specific Titan can only choose from one list or the other. For example, in no particular order:
(To create a more complete list, I've included abilities from units not normally considered as Aspect Warriors.)

Eldar Path Titan:

Bonesinger: Crew ability as per your list.

Harlequin: Probably a crew ability, may re-roll Close Combat dice once per engagement and never check Morale when fighting Chaos.

Pathfinder: Gains Infiltration.

Dark Reaper: Upgrade, gains Quickdraw and improves TSM by 1 (either for all weapons, or may be selected once per weapon).

Dire Avenger: Upgrade, gains one additional shot with a specific weapon. May be chosen once per weapon.

Fire Dragon: Not quite sure what to do with this one. Probably gives Elite. Adding Ignores Cover to all weapons would probably be overpowered, but perhaps they Ignore Cover for any target within 25cm?

Howling Banshee: As per your "War Cry" ability.

Striking Scorpion: Upgrade. Gain an additional 2d6 in close combat, usable against any target.

Swooping Hawk: Upgrade. Gains Jump Pack, possibly Deep Strike as well if that's not OP.

Warp Spider: Upgrade. Base move is tripled, but gains nothing when on Charge. If it moves further than it's old base move, it rolls as per Warp Spider. Also gains Fire on the Fly.

Wraithguard: Upgrade. Crew is replaced with spirit stones, spread out across the whole Titan. Ignore all damage to Head location. 'Crew' always survives unless Reactor Exploded.

Shining Spear: Upon entering a CC, make an immediate attack against any one foe. The foe takes a hit on 4+ with a -2 TSM. This also applies when the titan overruns. This only applies when the titan moves into CC.

Exarch: When an Eldar Path Titan hits maximum Level, it is known as an Exarch Titan rather than as a Grandmaster. In addition to it's chosen Path (Crew or Upgrade) ability, it also gains the Command special ability.

-----------------------------

Outside of either of our lists, there should probably be some option for Warlock titans to gain additional / alternate Psychic abilities. Aside from the Farseer and Spiritseer lists, I cannot think of any offhand.

It seems to me that due to their advanced Technology, Eldar should probably be allowed to pick exactly which skill or upgrade they receive when they level up. Same thought for Slann.

What do you guys think about all of this?

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Hi!

I agree on the tyranid list needing more. In really wanted 12, but ran out of ideas.

I'll add your contributions, please post more as you think of them.

Regarding Eldar

You know that is a pretty cool idea! its very representative of the eldar 40k background and society how they follow different path. Very Cool!

I mainly concentrated on rewrites of old skills and upgrades, but this is much more flavorful and "eldar like". I'm thinking of add this as a parallel system to the conventional one.

I think I will leave slann out of this for now. That list is in flux kinda depending on what deacon comes up with the future. It was a very miniatures available dependent list, so I'll concentrate on this stuff and any possible net epic revision, we can always add stuff once available proxies are better defined.

Primarch

Oh man, what a dilemma! I like Primarch's Eldar Titan rules, but then I like Magnus' Eldar Titan rules. But which one is better? There's only one way to find out.... FIGHT!!!

Both versions are excellent, I'm completely torn between the two. I think I may just stay on the fence....


Think you are right about the Slann, it'll take a while for the full range to come out so that could be worked on at a later stage.

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Hi!

No need to choose, they both can co-exist side by side.

Yeah, I'd rather leave the slann to a potential revision, since by then we will know what's out there.

On a side note I just posted my Squat stuff on the primarchload thread with views of the proxies I use for Squat armor. take a look and let me know what you think.

Primarch

As I mentioned, I do like what Primarch put in for Eldar abilities as well, so I have no problem with both lists being in use so long as it's clearly stated that any specific Titan may only choose from one list or the other.

There are a couple of ones in my list that I'd like to see some other people's opinions on. Specifically:

Dark Reaper: Is it too overpowered to have one application of the ability improve all of the Titan's weapons TSM? If so, it will have to be taken once per weapon system. While many of the Imperial ones work this way, Eldar are more advanced. So I'm not sure.

Fire Dragon: I think it would be overpowered to say that the Titan Ignores Cover at any range, but that for targets within 25cm it would be good.

Swooping Hawk: Is it OP to give a Titan Deep Strike?

Any thoughts / opinions on these abilities?

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Dark Reaper: Yes, I agree it should probably be taken once per weapon system.

Fire Dragon: Agreed, limit it to 25cm. Troops that try to take cover in buildings would be at too much of a disadvantage if they could be picked off with it on 75cm. With the new rules where the Eldar Titans can charge and first fire, they have a good chance of reducing the range to enemy troops very quickly.

Swooping Hawk: Definitely overpowered, especially when you take into account how much more powerful Titans are going to be now. Could I perhaps suggest a replacement? The ability offers the Titan Jump Jets just are as available to Revenant Titans? I'm aware that Revenant Titans will be looking to get abilities as well, so if they took it, the capabilities of the jump jets be doubled and could be used on advance orders rather than just charge? Of course, we could just put that in the rule, for Revenant Titans it can do x, for Phantom & other equivalents, it can do y. Given that the Phantoms are double the size, it doesn't seem unfair that the jets can only transport them half as far.

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Hi!

I think Bissler's suggestion for swooping hawks is a good one. We know jump jets work, so giving that to phantoms should not be unbalanced.

Primarch

Oh, the baseline plan for Swooping was for Jump Packs, as I had forgotten about the Revenant Titan's Jump Jets. Agreed, we should use existing systems where present.

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Just thinking Magnus, if the Eldar had upgrades based on their Aspect Warriors, would the Orks have Gargant improvements based upon the different clans?

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Possibly, but I doubt it. An Eldar taking up the role of an Aspect makes a choice to do so. An Ork just is one clan or another. Also, Ork units are restricted to being attached to related Clan cards, whereas Eldar have no such restriction (for Aspect Warriors anyway). Still, the fluff for the various Orky improvements could include clan references.

On the other hand, there should be something relating to Gork and Mork, the Ork gods of war.

Personally, I'm finding the fluff for 'Ram Dat Gitz!' to be a little light. Perhaps change it to "Blessing of Gork" with the same ability, but fluff of something like "Gork has found this Gargant to be pleasing, and has given it his blessing". Feel free to edit that. Hmm, actually instead of just flat tripling it's movement, how about this. Count up the number of Boyz stands within 25cm of the Gargant regardless of clan, but only Boyz, not Nobz or bikes or wildboyz, etc. Multiply this number by 5cm and add that value to the Gargant's maximum move for this turn. This value replaces the normal bonus for charging. Otherwise the ability would be the same. This would make the movement bonus more Orky by making it work more like how the Weirdboy Battletower works.

I cannot think of anything for Mork offhand.

Thought of more Tyranid upgrades:

Zoanthrope Crossbreed: This Bio-Titan has been enhanced with Zoanthrope biomass. It may make a Warp Blast attack once per activation as per the Zoanthrope.

Spore Pods: This Bio-Titan grows Spore Pods that give it Transport 5. If it already has Transport, it's current value is increased by 5.

There could easily be other crossbreed-type upgrades. Say one for Hive Queen could give it one or both of the Psychic Abilities. Personally, I'd require the Command upgrade as a prerequisite for a Hive Queen Crossbreed. Also perhaps with Biovore or other things that give new attack types.

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