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Skitarii v2.02

 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Valador already has established stats in the Vraks Traitor list in the compendium. No need to start discussion on that.
Its an AV not a WE. Neutron cannon is mw3+

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:14 pm 
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woops didn't realise that! well still think that we should add it in ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Yeah I agree. Its my favorite FW tank in biggerized format closely followed by Mach with the plasma blastgun, which should be in the AdMech heavy list (cataphractii ), not this one mind you :)

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Fri May 24, 2013 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:58 pm 
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The Valdor and thallax won't be going in the list. Valdor because there is a better fit in the cataphractii list and I feel that the role is similar to the minorus company. Thallax because they are more associated with ordo reductor which makes them less ideal candidates for a more general skitarii list.

I'll try to go through your post in more detail later, Duncan.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:17 am 
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Ok, washes are on the metals and the waiting game starts so time to dig into this :)

Duncan,
I'm excited to see what's in store from FW myself and I'll definitely be reviewing the new new models and fluff when I get a chance to see where they might fit in the skitarii lists. Not all of the new stuff will make it simply because we want the list to contain useful formations of iconic units rather than just chucking the whole cannon in the mix. It will help keep the list focused and recognizable. :)

We do have some difficulty in doing this because we need the list to be more than just red IG so we've experimented with some stuff. Lack of aircraft is one one them and I'd still like the list to function with little aircraft support. We also dropped aircraft to keep the list to adMech, not admech and IN because we know they do operate independently. Now, we could easily just add the Thunderbolt as an "adMech" version but that's a less than cosmetic change. It has no affect of how the list employs aircraft and almost leaves you wondering why no just keep them as IN allies. That's kind of thing I want to avoid.

That said, aircraft have been a fairly popular request and one of the things that seems to pop up in a lot of battle reports. I think the list is possible to use effectively without them, but it does take a bit of getting used to. Now that the Avenger has official support as a unit widely used by the admech, I'm game for adding it in because it gives an aircraft option for players who want them and it does so in a way that is more interesting than just adding a red thunderbolt. Perhaps down the road something even more exotic will appear and we can go with that over the avenger. :)

As far as the Thallax go, they are a cool unit and they would fill a gap with the slower army. I was very tempted to add them in, but the more I thought about it I feel that the combination of being closely associated with Ordo Reductor and the only real place for them being as support, started to conflict with the Crusader robots. The net gain was a second fast scouting formation that could drop a 45cm AT shot which adMech isn't lacking in access to.

That brings me to the idea of a dedicated non-minorus based transport. This simply won't happen. I really will not make things up for the list. It's been done in the past with Tau and I believe it got shot down and since the minorus presents a pretty good alternative that fits with the cannon that is also an iconic AdMech unit, the focus is to test and balance the minorus and majoris as a modular platform not create new fan made units.

Last, there are no plans to extend the automaton rule. It's specifically to make robots feel more robotic and extending that the the rest of the list, no matter how much augmentation they have, the skitarii just aren't robots. We do that and then suddenly we have to make the robots different again and add more special rules. The automaton rule works well for robots where it was designed to go; lets leave it there.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Just an update, I'm not forgetting about the units we've talked about here. I've been trying to establish some kind of dialogue about the SOB Avenger stats but thus far I've heard no response at all on them. I'm not even sure that the list is in active development at this point.

What this leaves me with is a bit of a quandary with regard to the stats. I find the version in the SOB list to be too cheap and there seems to be no reason behind the stats on the Avenger cannon given and I don't believe they fit the unit based on the fluff and other stats available.

So we can either just add the thing as is and increase the cost in the AdMech list, but that seems odd to have identical units with different price points, or we can adjust the stats and price and discuss things with the SOB list when it becomes more actively in development.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:37 am 
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Quick question re: upgrades for Skitarii. Are they limited in the number of Minoris they can take as upgrades or is it restricted to one? I ask because the Praetorian entry specifies they're limited to one.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:00 am 
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Short answer: Core formations can take up to three minorus as upgrades.

Long answer: for a time we limited the core formation upgrades to three DIFFERENT upgrades to prevent some combinations. That really isn't an issue any more so it was changed back to three upgrades total in any combination. Praetorians aren't a core formation so they wouldn't normally have access to a minorus upgrade at all but we included it as part of the formation options to give them a transport option.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:09 am 
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Fair enough.
I'm going to have a play with multiple Minoris supporting Skitarii, see how it plays.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:57 am 
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Vaaish wrote:
Just an update, I'm not forgetting about the units we've talked about here. I've been trying to establish some kind of dialogue about the SOB Avenger stats but thus far I've heard no response at all on them. I'm not even sure that the list is in active development at this point.

What this leaves me with is a bit of a quandary with regard to the stats. I find the version in the SOB list to be too cheap and there seems to be no reason behind the stats on the Avenger cannon given and I don't believe they fit the unit based on the fluff and other stats available.

So we can either just add the thing as is and increase the cost in the AdMech list, but that seems odd to have identical units with different price points, or we can adjust the stats and price and discuss things with the SOB list when it becomes more actively in development.


the SOB list hasn't been updated in 6 months or so.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:42 am 
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Zombo hasn't been around for a while and is off travelling for a couple of months, but he commented recently he's still working on the lists and Hive supplement.


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:25 am 
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Well, in that case, I'd like to proceed with testing out the avenger with these stats and we'll hash it out when Zobo gets back:

Type: AC: Fighter Bomber
Armor: 6+
CC: -
FF: -
2x Lascannon - Fixed forward arc - 30cm AT5+ / 30cm AA5+
Avenger Bolt Cannon Fixed Forward Arc 30cm 2xAP3+/AT5+
Heavy Stubber Rear Arc - 15cm AA6+

Priced at 250 points for a formation of two as a support formation.

This should be identical to the SOB version except for the change in the bolt cannon to match the VMB stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:57 am 
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Vaaish wrote:
This should be identical to the SOB version except for the change in the bolt cannon to match the VMB stats.

Actually the SoB version only has 1 x 30cm AT5+/AA5+ from the Lascannons not 2. This makes the plane more of a ground attack plane, as it's meant to be, not equal to the dedicated interceptor of the Thunderbolt.

I'd say drop to one shot and make it 225 points.


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:25 pm 
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My mistake, I thought I'd remembered there being 2x on it. We can go with that then:

Type: AC: Fighter Bomber
Armor: 6+
CC: -
FF: -
Lascannon - Fixed forward arc - 30cm AT5+ / 30cm AA5+
Avenger Bolt Cannon Fixed Forward Arc 30cm 2xAP3+/AT5+
Heavy Stubber Rear Arc - 15cm AA6+

Priced at 225 points for a formation of two as a support formation.

If anyone has a chance to get some games in using this, please report back. It'll be a bit before I can try this myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.02
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:40 pm 
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So, what mini are people using to represent it?

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