I'm really sorry if I caused offence, I really didn't intend to in any way whatsoever, I really enjoyed both our game and the discussion afterwards, I learned a lot and had just never come across any of your ideas before and as I said at the time, they felt a little 'gamey' (for want of a better word) to me, I'm not saying it's a bad thing at all, I liked both ideas, and perhaps it's my inexperience with the game but I wanted to ask if this kind of tactic is common

The thread is not about you or your playstyle, I apologise if it came across that way and I've edited the title of the thread to avoid any further potential negative impact on your good name

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i am very much an adherent of the belief that you cannot simply 'not deploy' models you've purchased. the marine army has a specific rule that allows them to do so. no other army does, so why would you assume that they get access to one of one armies special rules but not all of all armies special rules? that way leads to madness. no dropping units. to my mind, that isnt just gamey, its outright cheating.

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I feel that if there's no specific rule like Marines have for Rhinos, then dropping a squad means taking a blast marker. Consider it demoralization for leaving a buddy back on the ship because you couldn't all fit into the transporter that took you to your garrison.

It's not too different from losing a transport and choosing to leave your transport-less stands behind.

Yup, if someone does this in a tournament or campaign I run (and I don't mind if they do), they would be taking blast markers for any units left out of the formation.

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If someone tried leaving behind guardians in order to stuff some wraithguard into a vampire, they'd get very funny looks and no pizza for the rest of the night. The Griffon thing, I dunno as I don't play Guard, but air assaulting with wraithguard is a very big deal. I'd happily drop some fairly worthless guardians in order to do that, but I wouldn't even think about doing it in a game.

If leaving behind units is a penalty, perhaps and maybe with a BM, but when leaving behind units gives you an unintended (and uncosted) advantage, no way.

I'd love to see a rule reference that acts as the basis for any of this

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Certainly the sections on deployment mention nothing about willingly deploying only part of a formation...

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It's implicitly allowed by 1.7 and 1.7.4 (and longstanding convention ).

Deployment only talks about formations, and formations are always what you paid for (as far as I can tell).

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They also don't say that you can't knock your opponent out and steal his figures and call it a win.

The lack of a specific mention for an action is not reason to allow it.

That was kind of my point.

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In RL you'd also be able to demolish buildings instead of going to the trouble of picking out the troops inside them. Or to have your space marines commission gorgons, shadowswords and what not from the outranked imperial guard. Etc etc. What has got to do with rules and playing a game I have no idea.

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I would always allow the option of discarding units at the start of the game because I think it balances out over the length of the game. In my experience, the tactical gain is usually short term and rapidly becomes a deficit the longer the game goes on; the reduced formation is usually much more brittle, may lose firepower and the reduced numbers can be detrimental in assault.

Counting up victory points is one of the other reasons why people argue against the idea. However, I have always felt that if you allow people to discard units prior to the start of the game, at the end of the game the formation should be valued at the full cost, both for simplicity and balance.

Finally I dislike the idea of adding BMs as a penalty for a number of reasons, not least because this is a planned event (like starting on OW) and thus would not be disordering.

(my 2 cents as they say)

You would do it in real life. That doesn't mean a particular 40K commander would. Formations are set up to represent the particular foibles of whichever list they're in.

So yes, it's more efficient for the Eldar to Air Assault Wraithguard in. But they don't, because they don't like using Wraithguard at the best of times and prefer to use them to help keep their squishy civilians-in-armor from getting slaughtered.

People could probably make some pretty sweet lists just by assembling ad-hoc formations of whatever they liked, too. But that's not the point.

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