I intend to give the conversion beamer to secutors, not tech priests.

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-Vaaish

They are undoubtedly MW you can't escape that.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

When I get to test the current stats I'll see how they do. If Tau railguns and Demolishers become MW, I'll see about adjusting the conversion beamer as well.

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-Vaaish

Conversion beamers are more powerful than demolishers.

They are more powerful than multi meltas. They are more powerful than most weapons already accorded mw status, in fact, and it is not right to ignore that.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Either way it can't hurt to start them underpowered and tweak from there.

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-Vaaish

I don't think you'd have a problem balancing such a weapon anyway, in a list that already has greater access to MW and TK attacks than any other.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm still looking at a lot of ideas, but I've hashed out a tentative structure for the Skitarii list and I've bot a starting point for the new stuff. Eventually I'd like to have a pinned thread for pending changes that people can test out before anything goes into the final list. I'm hoping that'll help cushion the core list from needing a lot of tweaks as things are balanced. I've posted prices for the detachments. Point cost for things like the robots is a tentative to show about how I'd like to see the cost for those options. See the notes for more information on the Infantry Support upgrade.

Core:
275 Demi-century (9 hypaspists +Tech priest)
400 Minorus Company (3 Minorus)
400 Ordinatus Majorus (1 ordinatus)

Support (2 per core formation)
150 Crusader Scout Maniple (4x Crusader Scout Robots)
250 Colossus Assault Maniple (4x Colossus robots)
300 Sagitarii Maniple (4 Sagitarii +1 Tech Priest)
500 Tank Cataprhact
350 Heavy Tank Cataphract
200/375 Forge Knight Squadron
150 Orbital Support

Upgrades (Each core can select 3 different upgrades)
50 Flak
25 ea. Transportation
[See Notes] Infantry Support (Secutors [0-2], Praetorians [0-4] OR Rapiers [6x] OR Mole Mortars [6x])
100 Tech Lord (0-1)
175 Minorus

Allies, 33% of total force size may be taken from the list below:
150 Thunderbolt squadron
250 Marauder Squadron
[see list] One or Two Warhound titans
[see list] One Reaver titan
[see list] One Warlord Titan


Notes:
I'm removing sentinels from the list as it's a very guard unit whose function can be taken by the Crusader maniple which allows for some changes.

I also like Zobos suggestion to add in Sagitarii and I think that this is a good place for infantry plasma cannons since the Rapiers and some robots will have lascannons and the Secutors will be getting the conversion beamer. I see these guys as a cheaper alternative to taking the Tank Cataphact and I may give them access to transport.

I've reduced the cost of the Rapiers and mole mortars since they are getting wrapped into the demi-century and are no longer a cheap activation. This is also because they seem to be very rarely taken (queue the voices of dissent ) and hopefully it'll make them a bit more attractive.

I don't want to see uber demi-centuries with all of the possible infantry support instead of using infantry support to specialize the function of the demi-century a bit. I also don't want the praetorians to become the no brainer choice since they will be providing AA. With this setup you can always upgrade to secutors (they are expensive) and choose another specialization.

Infantry Support
0-2 Secutors @ 100 points per stand
0-4 Praetorians @ 100 points per two stands OR
6 Rapier Laser Destroyers for 100 points OR
6 Mole Mortars for 100 points

This does mean you can end up with a minorus company or a majoris that has secutors and praetorians or rapiers attached to it, but I don't think that is necessarily unfluffy.

Praetorians will be getting AA6+. I'm also thinking about dropping their save to 4+ rather than 3+ and give Secutors 3+ This isn't for sure.

I do have tentative stats for the Secutors, Robots, and Sagitarii but I won't be posting them quite yet I'd like to do a bit of work before they come to light and you all can yell at me for destroying the game.

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-Vaaish

Just to be clear this is

0-2 Secutors AND 0-4 Praetorians
OR 6 Rapiers
OR 6 Mole Mortars
?

(Where do I put the question mark there?)



At least you're fairly realistic about the result of any changes you make.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Yes, I originally had an AND after the secutors, but it made it sound like you HAD to take something with them.
You can take 0-2 secutors and also select one of the next three options.

So, for example, you could pick this:

2x Secutors
6x Rapiers
300 points

or you could take
4x Praetorians
200 points

or you could take
1x Secutor
100 points

but you couldn't take
4x praetorians
6x Rapiers

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-Vaaish

Gotcha.

As for wording, thy this:

Infantry Support: 0-2 Secutors at 100 pts each. You may also take one of the following: 0-4 Praetorians at 100 pts/2 units, 6 Rapiers at 100 pts, or 6 Mole Mortars at 100 pts.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I like Robots being introduced. I forget, what are Sagitarii and Secutors?

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

That's pretty wordy, I'll fiddle with it some more.


Sagitarii are basically heavy weapons Hypaspists in their own detachment. Plasma cannons instead of HB and fewer stands. Secutors are dedicated to warfare and the title might date back before the Imperium. They have access to ancient and powerful weapons, and are extremely hard to kill but not known to show up in large numbers. Generally fight to protect whatever AdMech asset they deem important.

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-Vaaish

My eyes need a break from painting almost-but-not-quite white and since there hasn't been much comment on the proposed structure (probably because no one has stats to work with to know how off things are), I'm going to go ahead and put out my tentative stats for the new units. These stats have yet to be playtested so use at your own risk. If you do decide to give them a go, please tell me what you think.

Robots
In lieu of a special rule and because the tech-priest has already loaded the battle program wetware by the time they get on the field in an epic game, I think that robot formations need to be initiative 3+. Since the techs don't usually go into battle with the robots, but instead monitor them for any malfunctions and can't adjust the program, this represents something happening that the tech-priest didn't account for and the robot not acting in an ideal manner. It should also help offset their weapons since I'm trying to follow the old compendium loadouts.

Crusader Robot
LV 20cm 6+ 4+ 6+
Multi-melta 15cm MW5+ AND
Small Arms Macro-weapon
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Power Weapon (base contact) Assault Weapons Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Walker, Scout

I didn't want to give the scout robot 2x lascannons and since it had power swords, the alternate config using the HB and MM seemed a good alternative. I also gave them a better CC stat since they are agile, but I think this will probably go up to 5+ because of the MW EA. These replace Sentinels in role but are slightly higher cost so they aren't an insta-buy.

Colossus Robot
AV 15cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Lascannon 45cm AT5+
2x Autocannon 45cm AP5+ / AT6+
Walker

have a similar stat line to marine dreads with the exception of the CC stat being 6+ to show they aren't really set up for beating on things. It really doesn't matter if the colossus or conquerer are used since both can have effectively the same loadout.

Next up are the infantry units starting with the secutors.

Secutors
Infantry 15cm 3+ 3+ 3+
2x Conversion Beamer
30cm AP6+ /AT6+ OR
30cm-45cm AP3+/AT4+ Ignore cover
Augmentations (Base Contact) Assault Weapon, Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: The Conversion Beamer gets stronger at range and may only use the second profile on targets farther than 30cm. Reinforced Armour

These are based on the Terminator stats with the exception that I removed thick rear armor since they will be in a detachment with other troops and I think it would cause confusion. They also get the conversion beamer. I dropped them to 3+ armor since I thought they might be better suited than the praetorians, but I will probably end up leaving them with 4+ since 3+RA is a pretty tough nut. Alternatively they could get an invulnerable save along with weaker armor. These are supposed to be the best infantry that AdMech can field.

Sagitarii
Infantry 15cm 5+ 5+ 5+
2x Plasma Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+, Slow Firing

These are somewhat based off of hte pattern of the IG fire support and marine dev detachment with two weapons per stand. Same stats as Hypaspists but they get plasma cannons instead of HB.

Adjusted units:
Praetorian Combat Servitors
Infantry 15cm 4+ 4+ 5+
Autocannon 45cm AP5+ / AT6+ / AA6+
Augmentations (Base Contact) Assault Weapon, Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Fearless, Invulnerable Save.

Just addition of AA and the change to 4+ armor. I'm not entirely sure the armor change is needed since I don't remember them feeling OP when they are upgrades a few versions back.

That's all for now.... let the lynching begin

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-Vaaish

Why not 6 5 5 for the Crusader? A MM and HB has to be worth at least FF5. Not sure about cost, perhaps ~40pts per unit?

For the Sagitari, I think 2x Plasma Cannon Slow Firing will be a royal PITA to keep track of. Why not just make them 1x Plasma Cannon, non-Slow Firing? Or have them as 2x but have the stand reduced to steaming slag if one of those is a 6

Nobody likes 3+ reinforced armour saves; 4+ reinforced with an invulnerable save should be the maximum.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread