But drones as an upgrade don't really offer anything other than ablative wounds for small expensive formations. They suffer the same number as BM's as for being destroyed as other units and are a considerable downgrade from FW's while costing the same per unit. Why would people want to add them to anything other than Crisis Suits?

Actually, I would argue Drones are a poor choice as ablative wounds for small expensive formations.

At 5+ armor, they are BM generators which suppress and/or break the formation they are attached to. The best strategy for using them would not be to put them out front as ablative troops, but to hide them behind the Crisis Suits where they can soak suppression (maybe, due to limited range) and pad out FF just a bit. Basically, it's the same situation as Ork Stompas, Dreads and Kanz, except that the disparity is greater between Drones and Crisis Suits.

That arrangement will not change with anything except a major increase to Drone durability. With any other change (price or firepower) the "BM-generator" vulnerability remains and the Drones' best option will still be to cower behind the Suits.

As to the arguments about whether Expendable is thematically appropriate for Drones, having Drones hide behind Crisis suits is also against their background. To me, the Drone/Expendable question is more a matter of "choose your poison" than anything else. Which thematically inappropriate result is the lesser of evils?

Drones are useful to crisis formations not just as ablative wounds, but also as a unit to take suppression that moves the same speed (20cm + jetpacks).

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But.......if they're expendable, they won't generate blast markers for dying. This is exactly the reason I asked about expendable; without it they're a liability to crisis suit formations and end up hiding behind them, with expendable they can be placed in front to absorb the first few hits. This would apply equally to fire warrior formations as well, though they'd be impractical for mounted formations without a transport rule.

I agree with Dobbsy's assesment om the tiger shark. I've wanted to include it in most list I've done before my games, but the cost is to great on something so fragile.

Cheers

I'm not so convinced that drones are a liability to crisis suits. I must start by saying I don't use them as a upgrade but I can see that for non SC crisis suits they can be usefull, even without the grot rule. Jump forward unload ordinance jump back putting drones in front of crisis to try and make sure they get another turn of shooting. Quite often so long as I get to shoot with them first I genuinely don't mind if the crisis suits break as I can use the fall back move to get them out of harms way. I am more concerned about keeping them alive so I can get another round of shooting in.

On Ax-1-0's I still fail to see how an aircraft with 45cm ranged weapons is too fragile to take. It out ranges most ground based AA and the risk from aircraft can almost be negated with the Tau's 60cm AA bubble. Frankly, in the majority of my games they don't get shot at.

The "AA bubble" doesn't protect you from ground based AA, and if you're not in range of flak when you fire you often are when you disengage with your aircraft as your turning circle usually sees you fly through some sort of flak and that's where the 5+ armour is pitiful and 375 points is ridiculous. I use to lose an average of 1 aircraft a turn - when they actually turned up to attack.... The loss of a 187.5 point aircraft to a 50 point Hydra is not good value.

They have a 4+ armour save, and if a Hydra moves to shoot at an Ax-1-0 it's going to be hitting on 6's... That equals a 17% chance that a lone Hydra will take out an AX1-0 in the end phase, and an 83% chance it will miss or fail to penetrate the armour.

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It should also be noted how easy Tau find it to suppress ground based AA. That combined with an aircraft which has 45cm shots should mean that ground AA should be rarely if ever a factor.

I don't see that, sorry—given that all units in a formation with range and LOF count for suppression for flak attacks, it's almost impossible to suppress AA against a reasonable opponent.

Could the Firewarrior upgrade (4 for 100 points, or 4 and 2 devilfish for 150) be changes to allow the option of 2 Firewarriors for 50, or 2 and a Devilfish for 75?

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And what about the Hydra(s) that has a plane move through its arc as I mentioned...? This is quite a normal happening where I play. Planes often get shot down upon exiting the table.... You get in easily only to find you won't get out as smoothly. This is where I've lost most of my aircraft in the past BTW (not only AX-1-0s) and then combine it with the fact that interceptors can get around Tau flak easier than the AX-1-0 bomber can enemy flak. Add to this the fact that if the aircraft actually survive they don't turn up after receiving BMs, makes taking them a dis-advantage (as mentioned, their cost is huge in this list).

Also, I don't see Tau suppressing AA, any better than any other army in the game.

Sorry to turn this into the AX-1-0 thread, Yme-loc. Said my bit on this now, so nothing else to say.

If you drive an Ax-1-0 through a stationary hydra's arc, you probably deserve to lose it. It's about a 30% chance to lose an AX-1-0 vs a single stationary Hyrda and you'd have to be fairly desperate to try it.

On the exit move, you should have aimed so as not to fly through too much AA, using your long range to achieve an early turn back to base.

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With the sheer amount of long range fire power Tau have, how are they not better at suppressing targets than other lists. If you're really concerned abpout the Ax-1-0 keep firing until the AA is suppress then carefuly manage your disengage move.

Also suppressing AA is the same as supressing other types of firing you suppress from the rear of the formation so you simply need to apply enough BM's to suppress all the units in range up to the AA unit. If they move the AA unit to the front of the formation that increases your chances of killing it at hits are applied to the closest units first. It really isn't impossible.