Happy new year

Epic UK are pleased to announce the release of our 24th armylist - Codex Lost and the Damned
http://www.epic-uk.co.uk/armylists.shtml

This replaces the previous LatD list for all Epic UK and Epic UK affiliated events. Thanks to all the people who have worked on this and enjoy!

Ticket sales are underway for both
Full Scale Assault http://www.epic-uk.co.uk/fsa.shtml
and
Open War XVII http://www.1stcompanyveterans.net/event ... war_17.php

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NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

pg 15 Basilisk spelt wrong

pg16 Demoinci Pack should be demonic pact

When a review of lists that had been taken to tournaments was undertaken it
became apparent that there only a few units that were primarily used Hydras and
Thunderbolts primarily among them

should be

When a review of lists that had been taken to tournaments was undertaken it
became apparent that there only a few units that were primarily used, particularly Hydras and
Thunderbolts.

Whilst it was felt that the original defiler was correctly costed, there were better and cheaper options
available to a LatD player which left the formation unused IN recent years



otherwise pretty much the same: like the tweak to make doomwings a preferable option, and possibly like the buff to defilers. Not sure it was needed, but meh.

Wasn't supposed to be a big review. NetEA get to do that

Well done gents, good to see it out there and glad to see I could help with some Photo's.

Demonic pact for free is a nice little touch and helps round out a more general theme.

Fair enough on the doomwings...but what if people would prefer to take a non tzeentch list: I play Khorne for example...?

The previous version of defilers were utterly useless...I feel you got it right with the Black Legion Defilers and these more accurately captured the essence of some of the more poplular proxies out there. I've previously stated that I felt the only change needed to the LatD list was to replace the 400pt BP capable Defilers with the 275pt BL version...instead...well I'm not sure what to think!
A problem LatD has had from the beggining (apart from being coven dependent...) has been slow speed and inability to hit back: 20cm infiltrate defilers with battlecannons at 75cms (another theme common in the latd list: an easy to remember weapon) would have helped that a lot. But instead you've gone for something 10cm slower on the attack, with less firepower at shorter range, a weirdly different combat stat etc and all for a decrease of 25pts??!
I feel that not only does this mean yet another different unit (that looks the same!!!) as another unit in another army list but that it's just change for change sakes! I don't think the army needed another unit capable of garrisoning did it? Just feels a bit clunky...
It also really messes with my own (personal quirk) of units being a WYSIWYG as possible...
*rant over!*

I'd be very interested to hear what other people have to say about it.

That said though I will be taking a LatD list this year now: I'd like to try making Britcon with 4k of them :-)

Well done in all though.
R>

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Thanks.


You can still take Thunderbolts, they just cost a bit more & you still have Altars and Hydras on the ground for your defence.


Problem with 20cm Infiltrate was that they became too much like Daemonic Assault Engines, now defilers can be the first wave followed by the faster forces following up.

Apart from even a 25cm move unit still isn't going to get into CC particularly often: even infantry can hover at 30cm ready to engage it in a FF, whereas a 20cm infiltrator can hover safely out of range of the infantry and then barge in there afterwards.

That said though I usually use my 'proper' defilers behind my infantry as a fast counterattack unit...maybe for another 25pts the engines will work for that but I doubt it.

Think in terms of speed: I would still point out the difference in effective engagement range between 25+15cm and 40+15cm 'charge' range. In NetEA LatD this has made defilers a great buy even if they are a paper tiger.

This is what differentiates defilers from Assault engines: their 2xMW attacks and low armour vs multiple normal attacks and high armour. Two completely different target groups for engagements. Two entirely different units in use: the assault engines are there for the long haul. The Defilers are used as swift and bloody retribution.

For 300pts (cost of assualt engines)...I've always thought "Screw that! I'll take a sub/castigator or plague tower instead".

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It's mostly the disparity in BL and LatD Defilers that annoys though.

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the release notes read like "we would have liked to do something else, but we didnt have time because of our self imposed need to pump out lists, so we didnt" which makes me wonder when, if ever, eUK revise their lists.
i also seem to recall someone being very critical of the idea of a thunderbolt price increase that wasnt universally applied...

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I too don't see a need for a new defiler, especially since:
- the BL one is well regarded
- this one makes up totally new weapons

IMO if the problem was a clash with daemonic assault engines then you should fix the daemonic assault engines, not change the well-regarded Defiler.

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I am also concerned about the defilers. I feel the Blacklegion ones have a place in the army and another (very similar) stat line for the same model is only going to cause confusion.

We review our list after they have been in tournament play for a period - SM were reviewed last year, IG are under review now.

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NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Another one here thinks the Stigmatus Defiler is a bit of a mess (the armour save, the speed, the 2+ CC). I agree that cutting the range of the primary gun is a good move, as long-range gun platform isn't the Defiler's role, but the other changes make little sense when there's a perfectly good chassis already for the same unit in a different list. I thought the idea was to present lists that standardise units as much as possible for tournament use? I personally think using the Black Legion Defiler statline with a 45cm main gun (call it the Defiler Cannon or somesuch), and -maybe- a small points reduction due to the reduced range and the lower initiative, would be the way forward.

I'm also not keen on trying to push the use of Doom Wings in place of Tbolts by increasing the cost of Tbolts. I'd rather see them be pushed by making them Undivided (as was done with the Hellfire Cannons, which used to be Cannons of Khorne), which would also facilitate dropping Tbolts from the list, and by making the formation larger (or variable in size). Me personally, the only reason I don't have mine painted for use with my LatD army is that I've gone mono-Nurgle, and to include Doom Bolts, I've got to introduce a Tzeentch Coven, and thus faction hatred, as a factor in the army, and that's just not happening. (Besides which, it'd mess up the aesthetic aspect of being a single colour scheme...) How many people who play LatD are actually going to mix the factions that much?

And a couple of errors for whoever edits the PDF next :-

There's no way in the list to add an Arch Heretic, the Supreme Commander, to an army. The original Audrey LatD list had "One Demagogue, Chaos Marine Aspiring Champion or Daemon Prince in the army must be upgraded to an Arch Heretic. This character upgrade does not cost any additional points." just at the top of the army list part of the document. This is now missing.

Top of page 7 - "CULTISITS" should be "CULTISTS".