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Lightning Fighter Stats
Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:43 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
The background is that the Lightning has less powerful AA weapons than the thunderbolt, but a longer range. If that means they need to be cheaper than thunderbolts then that's the option to go for, but we don't just change the background to what we want it to be for our lists.


What's your source for that? And is it comparing it to the FW Thunderbolt loadout (two twin autocannons and twin lascannon) rather than the EA version? I'm still in favor of option 3. It gives you the same AA as the TBolt but bumps the 15cm AA5+ to 45cm. That screams interceptor to me.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Yes, that's my source, the FW imperial armour books.

I know Epic has the Thunderbolt totally wrong, but in order to match the background as well as we can we should keep the lightning as lower in AA than the thunderbolt.

We can't really alter the Thunderbolt, but we can get them correct in abilities relative to each other.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Which book?

And why use those TBolt stats in the same list as the Lightning then? We could add the "Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter" as well which could be stated to the FW TBolt model.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:52 pm 
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I have no problem correcting the Thunderbolt stats, but that's another discussion.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:57 pm 
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If Mosc is OK with adding a Heavy TBolt to the Elysians then I'd say go down that route.

And I haven't been able to find any mention of the Lightning having less powerful AA then the TBolt yet in IA1. Apoc makes mention of it carrying less weaponry but doesn't comment on the AA.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:59 pm 
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The weaponry is the reason it has less AA;

They both have Twin lascannons, but the Thunderbolt has 2 twin autocannons compared to the single long barelled autocannon of the lightning.

i.e., the lightning gets longer range, but less firepower.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Then go with something like this for the TBolt:

Code:
Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter
AC   Fighter-Bomber   6+   n/a   n/a
Twin Autocannons   30cm   2x AP4+/AT5+   Fixed Forward
   and   30cm   AA4+   Fixed Forward
Twin Lascannon   30cm   AT4+/AA5+   Fixed Forward


It'll have better short-ranged AA and more shots on the ground attack, but won't have three AA attacks (MtM thought that was a bit broken in our Chem-Dog games, and I agreed).

Code:
Lightning Attack Fighter
AC   Fighter   6+   n/a   n/a
LB Autocannon   45cm   AP5+/AT6+/AA5+   Fixed Forward
Twin Lascannon   30cm   AT4+/AA5+   Fixed Forward


These lightning stats will have longer-ranged AA at the expense of hitting power and ground attack shots.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:10 pm 
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I don't think changing the Thunderbolt for one list is a good solution; we'd be in the same situation we have now for the lightning, with different stats in different lists.

If we were going to do that we might as well just stay with different lightning stats.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Is it any different then having different Marauder stats in different lists? They're stated for different models, what's wrong with a little variety?

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:14 pm 
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The whole point of this thread was to come up with a single set of lightning stats. The way to do that isn't to come up with a second set of thunderbolt stats.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:22 pm 
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If you're comparing the FW Lightning with the FW Tbolt fluff-wise but coming up with the stats by comparing it to the SG TBolt then what I'm proposing is a way to fix it.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 pm 
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It won't fix it for inter-list comparison.

If we squint a little at the Thunderbolt stats, and pretend they represent the correct FW weapons stats, we can stat up a lightning that compares correctly to it.

But yes, the problem with statting up the Lightning is that it should be cheaper than the Thunderbolt, but the Thunderbolt is understatted compared to what it should be, so you have to make the lightning crazy cheap.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Or we could pretend we have complete control over these lists, and stat the units WYSIWYG to the models... :P Like we did for the Baneblade when it was upgraded to the Minervan stats, or the Marauder in Siege.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:38 pm 
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In which case we end up with different stats in different lists, which was the very reason this thread was started.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Re: Lightning Fighter Stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Signal wrote:
I'm not saying we should magically change the background, it just needs to fill a role in Epic.

The following are the options for compromise I see:

1) AA6+ AC/AA5+ LC (Cheap and ineffective Lightnings, I don't like this one, including it for completeness)
2) AA6+ Autocannon, AA4+ Wingtip Lascannons (has repurcussions with the Strike)
3) AA5+ Autocannon, AA5+ Lascannons (I know you don't like this one Zombo, just including it for completeness)
4) AA6+ AC, AA5+LC, and the inclusion of AA6+ Skystrike missiles (Unfortunately an extra new weapon)
5) something I've missed?

My personal preference would be for 3, followed by 4 and then 2. Your preferences?


Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you on this thread. I've unfortunately been dealing with some very bad Real Life stuff. :'( Spent 30 hours straight through on this.

Anyway, after reading through all the discussion, I find myself inclined to #2. TBH I am fine with it having the AP and AT shot on the autocannon as well if we are going to give the Strike Fighter variant 2xAT4+ shots for the rockets. It means repricing them for Elysians but I don't care.

I am not keen on adding another aircraft to the Elysians. One of the criticisms of the list is that it has too many aircraft and -while I don't agree with that- I do believe it has enough.

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