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Guys, remember minimal is better than "I want the world..." It gets a bit fanlist-like when we start asking for stuff on top. Just my 2c anyway. Start at the bottom and work our way up.

Could I please get a consensus by the end of the week on this so I can update the Army book? I won't put half-arsed stats (between different lists) in if I can avoid it for the final document.

Cheers

Fine, but make the thing useful. Right now it's not against anything but light armor with minimal air cover.

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It seems to me that the big issue is that the Drop lists need good AA interceptor air cover and the Sisters lists needs a ground attack plane.

Is this what the discussion boils down to? Have I got it wrong?

Zombo, does the Sisters list (and the Lightning Fighter itself, for that matter) really need a 45cm attack or will it get by with 30cm attacks?

i find 45cm attacks distasteful, especially since the eldar, supposed kings of air superiority, do not get them

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Definitely. Cutting them down to a single rocket negates a significant amount of their utility. Lightning Strike Fighters are essentially a replacement for Artillery in the Guard lists that use them. I don't think anyone's "fanlisting" the Strike Fighter, just looking to give it a niche, that of a dedicated Tank-Killer.



The drop lists need two aircraft: A good AA Interceptor (to replace lack of Ground-AA), and a good AT Close Support plane (to replace lack of artillery, and general lack of AT fire. As noted, the Elysians have gained AT since the Vendetta inclusion)

I'm honestly not sure what the Sisters need, as it appears that the inclusion of the Lightning over the Thunderbolt is due simply to novelty, and an adherence to the token inclusion of the Lightning in the Dawn of War computer game.

I changed the name of the "Twin Lascannons" to "Wingtip Lascannons" as these aren't the same weapons the Marauder Bomber is armed with (45cm At4+/AA4+)
Also i split the two rocket/missile attacks of the Lightning Strike into one AT andone AP attack as the Lignting in IAAII can be armed with both Hellstrike (AT) and Hellfury (AP) Missiles.

And an alternative proposal to the Lightning Attack to more emphasise it's AA-role:



And to complete it a more WYSIWYG approach to the Thunderbolt

Note thati based the "Autocannon Phalanx's" stats on the Chaos Hell Blades two Reaper Autocannons (2 x 15cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+).

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The sisters don't need a ground attack plane, they need an interceptor. Note that the stats I've proposed cut the ground attack from the autocannon.

The 45cm AA attack is essential, as the Long Barreled Autocannon is the key feature of the plane.


Mosc: Given the discussion so far, what are your proposed stats?

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+1

I don't think I've ever played against anyone without aircraft

I've also played a huge no. of games against armies fielding thunderbolts and there have been a significant no. of times when they've given up their 15cm AA attacks to avoid defensive or ground AA, so I think that having 2 AA4+ attacks at 30cm alone, let alone 1 AA4+ at 45cm more than makes up for losing one attack at 15cm in addition to needing a price bump vs. thunderbolts. Plus they're Fighters not Fighter Bombers, which makes those long range attacks even more useful.

I just think 150pts is too cheap, although it would certainly fill the Elysian's need for cheap plentiful aircover and it would help with their activation problems. If that's the plan, then fine, cost them at 150pts. I just hope I don't have to face 3 fms of them next time I play Bill.

That surprises me a little, I choose not to use aircraft in around 1/3 of my games.

Matt needs more nid players in his group!

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good point Carlos, the only nid player I know smells bad so we all avoid him.

'nids and necrons are the only armies I've played with or against that haven't fielded aircraft, for obvious reasons, whereas every other game has had aircraft on both sides. Regional differences I guess. It did get a bit silly at one point with having to face up to 3 t'bolt formations, but that guy got soundly slapped with a fish until he promised to stop. Then he didn't bring any and took 10 hunters or something, which completely screwed up all his opponents

That guy enjoys playing mind games.

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I probably use AC more than any of my regular opponents, and I probably use them only 25% of the time. But then, I've already noted that I live in an Air light meta. However, there's still a fair amount of Flak around on principle. I'm not convonced the Attack is worth more than 150/pair, but I firmly believe the Strike should get 2x Underwing rockets, and cost no more than 200/pair. 175/pair would make me more comfortable.

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SG

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