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Barrages and placing of templates

 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:21 pm 
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OK, thanks guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Mephiston wrote:
Barrages are an abstraction and as E&C has said when Jervis was consulted his reply does indicate that the allocation rules are not used in this process.

Not just that, JJ also wrote this in 2003 on the SG site, whilst Epic was in its playtest stages:
Jervis Johnson wrote:
I've changed the rules for barrage templates so that you roll to hit what's under the template, rather than just using the number of units under the template to determine the number of to hit dice rolled (which I the way it was before). The new method is slightly slower, but is much more intuitive.


Which clearly indicates how the actual allocation part of the rules are supposed to work, with a change away from the "standard front-to-back" allocation method as was used in early playtesting, to the latter-day "roll against units on an individual basis" method.

Jervis' reply to Neal 7 years later just reinforces what's already out there online (And in the wording of the rules themselves, for that matter).

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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Ben, I'm not going to argue but if you only have the rule book, and no access to the faq's you get this from the barrage rules.

Quote:
The Barrage table lists the hit roll required to hit each unit under the Barrage template. Roll to hit all units (friend
or foe) under the template with the appropriate to hit values. In order to speed dice rolling we recommend rolling to
hit all units of exactly the same type together, and then removing any casualties from those closest to the enemy first.


So all the issues with barrages actually come from allowing speed rolling.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:44 pm 
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Quote:
So all the issues with barrages actually come from allowing speed rolling.

I think it was between that and the template placement rules down the bottom of the page that refer to not placing your template so you can intentionally "snipe" important units, which when combined lead to a greater mis-interpretation (That of using the standard hit alloc. rules so no "sniping" of any kind can occur).

I wouldn't be shocked to see this issue pop up again in the future, as there is a slight ambiguity to the wording.

Hopefully one day we can get the FAQ in an easily readable .PDF form?

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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Hopefully one day we can get the FAQ in an easily readable .PDF form?


Once the structure of the netEA project shakes out I can't see why not.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Mephiston wrote:
When it's all said and done as the rules say placing templates can get to be a prickly subject. As ever discuss this in your 5 min warm up. Remember to agree whether its just base covered or a model on a base to be hit, this isn't defined in the rules either.


There is a default ruling in the barrage rules for what is caught under a barrage template, which should be used unless players agree otherwise.
Quote:
Using Barrage Templates: Deciding which enemy units have been caught underneath a circular Barrage template is another one of the things that can cause endless arguments during a game. The method we use (and the default you should use unless you have a different convention that you prefer) is that a unit is affected if any part of the model
falls under the template, or at least one model on a stand.
In addition, templates must be placed in such a way as to get as many enemy units from the target formation under them as possible within the restrictions for lines of fire and range. This stops players ‘sniping’ at important units with artillery.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Agreed, it is specifically defined, as dptdexys notes.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrages and placing of templates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:38 pm 
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The attacker places the templates.

As far as the way it's written, I think it's clear. "You" is the attacker. The entire section is written to address the person firing, as in "this is what you do when you are firing."

All you have to do is replace the pronoun(s) with the noun in question. A sentence like "You are allowed to place templates over your own units, or units from several enemy formations..." turns into "The defender is allowed to place templates over his own units, or units from several of the attacker's formations..." That is obviously wrong. Technically, it parses, but no one speaks or writes that way.


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