Hi, I don't play E:A, but was looking at the lists for ideas (I play Epic 40k). I just thought I'd write to ask a question about this list. Right from the start I do want to say this is ment in a good natured way and isn't ment to just cause dispute.
The list as presented here seems very rigid and out of character (to me) when compared to the overall 40k universe storyline.
I understand the need to have the various army lists and the desire to have diversity amongst the lists to create different play styles.
Just curious why each forgeworld wouldn't have it's own list, or at the very least it's own 'support unit' selections?
Not all forgeworlds would use Macharius tanks nor rhino apcs (at least 40k storyline wise), especially when they had access to and manufacture Baneblades, etc. Ryza forgeworld for example (fluff wise) would have an emphasis on plasma weaponry, including Russ Executioners and Stormblades.
Some forgeworlds would use chimeras some rhinos, some perhaps valkyries as apc's, etc.
All forgeworlds would have access to the best equipment they manufactured, bionics/heavy hand weapons for their infantry, and 'hardwired' armor crews.
Ordinatus are under the province of the Centurio Ordinatus and Titans of course are organized in the Titan legions, not every forgeworld would have equal access to these resources nor in the same way.
As a Epic 40k player I kinda see E:A as an attempt to introduce more 'character' and 'individuality' to army types that Epic 40k did away with in an effort to streamline play and I just felt personally kinda sad to see such a restricted AMTL list. Since forgeworlds (fluff wise) could give the most opportunity for diverse units in the Imperium.
Again, this is all just ment as a good natured observation, if I missed something, or what I wrote is accommodated already, my appologies ahead of time, this is alot of matterial to take in and it's all rather spread out.

The short answer is yes, each Forgeworld can indeed have its own list, in the fullness of time.

But first you have to balance one list, and then make variants.

We're currently working on balancing the Mechanicus PDF army list.

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I agree with you Westside and I've brought it up before as I think the changes to the most recent edition of the list were unnecessary and restrictive. It's now become a variant list that may be suitable for Forge World Lucius (though it's arbitrarily missing lots of units they would use) rather than a generalist list.

I think the idea of splitting the list into lists for different Forge Worlds is good and should be done (as with lists for different chapters, legions, craftworlds, ect) but we could do with the other lists as well. I think I'd probably use the previous version of the list in games for the moment. If I get the time at some future point and no-one else has then I'd like to write a Martian Adeptus Mechanicus list, as they would have Leman Russ, Vanquishers Valdors, Shadowswords, Baneblades ect but would never use Macharius, Stormblades or Stormswords.

Glyn: A big part of the reason I drew back on the variety of units in the current PDF list was so as to open up space for exactly that kind of variant list down the line. Ie: I made the current list specific, rather than generic, so as to open up more development possibilities in the future.

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On an overall storyline level, wouldn't the organizations that might be present be more or less:
For Adeptus Mechanicus: Titan legions (not all forgeworlds have), Skitarii (present on all forgeworlds, would naturally have the best a forgeworld could manufacture including Ordinatus minoris), Centurio Ordinatus, controllers of the Ordinatus majoris (just like the titans, not everywhere, fluff wise seem to be something 'shadowy' like Grey Knights or Psi Titans, and are deployed based on need and probably politics, game wise could see almost being a Titan or Ordinatus majoris not both situation for a 'standard' game list).
For the forgeworld planet itself, which according to my knowledge of 40k storyline has an Imperial planetary govenor: standard PDF, perhaps with access to IG units. Would probably be equiped liberally from the home forgeworld, but would be distinctly different in organization and leadership from the Adeptus Mechanicus troops.
I'm now also kinda curious why balance is proving somewhat of an issue after all these years? Shouldn't balance be primarily addressed through the point/cost system. While the lists themselves introduce the 'character' and 'flavor' that make the different organizations and races of 40k interesting?
Thanks for answering my previous question about this so quick E&C, I know you touched base on some of what I just reiterated and since there is an openess to each forgeworld having some list of it's own I'm just writing to hopefully add a way the storyline organizational pattern naturally allows for 'adding' on and 'substituting' to the lists without, hopfully effecting the balance of the game.

One issue that I think the list ran into was that the options available created armies that were basically guard armies. We had superheavy tanks like shadowswords and baneblades, artillery batteries, chimeras, Leman Russ, and sentinels. For all intents and purposes it was red steel legion since some of the more interesting options like minorus, majoris and knights were being passed up for the more mundane and regular IG stuff.

Removing artillery and superheavy tanks put focus back on minorus which were perfectly capable of being configured into the role of artillery or AT and were more in line with the fluff of the admech. Reducing the Russ options to just the executioner variant again pulled the focus off the vanquisher and regular russ. The hope being that instead of seeing red guard, skitarii armies focus more around the core of troops and minorus.

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-Vaaish

Now unfortunately for me I come down right on the fence.

I agree with E&C that bottoming out a single list is the way to go for the immediate future and I agree with Vaaish that the older versions of the list were very guard like. However the list does seem to have lost a bit of the flavour which initially excited me and drew me in.

My own personal opinion is that limiting the vehicles (ordinatus aside) to those already in other imperial armies is always going to result in the army feeling slightly unoriginal. To my eyes the current list feels like it sits smack bang between marines and imperial guard with overlapping vehicles choices and some similar stat lines.

The mechanicus should feel as alien to humanity as any other army. The background stories that I've read certainly go so far as to say that their behavior, customs, beliefs and language are a far cry from anything else in the imperium. There's a real oppurtunity here to reflect the creativity of the maniacle geniuses of the mechanicus within the list. For instance I suggest using unorthodox and un-uniformed (I'm not sure that's a word but you get the gist) vehicles grouped under a single type such as APC or battle tank, I wouldn't even mind if they had the same stats as a rhino and a leman russ executioner. I just feel that the current setup slightly limits creativity in terms of what models are placed on the table top so that when you look down you are indeed looking at a SM/IG mash up and not an Adeptus mechanicus force which further compounds the feeling that this is a variant list of another imperial army.

I think every change made so far has been to the benefit and advancement of the list, and perhapps the variant list will add back in some of the character I'm looking for, but I don't feel the current list is there yet in terms of flavour.

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Variant lists

This is the planetry defence force for a particular forgeworld.

like the steel legion, it dosen't try and include EVERY possible Ad-mech style of warfare - they're a big and diverse bunch.
Also, you don't want to wall off potential IG future lists by taking that niche with Skittari Legions either.

Current Options - Titan world, Knight world, defensive PDF.

future options - Front line Sappers, Explorators, Ectro-Cult, Biologus researchers, 'tech-guard', 'cyber-barbarians', dark mechanicus
combine one of the above with one of the forgeworld quirks and you have a list.

'has a lot of plasma' is not enough of a theme in itself.

all would share a good 2/3rds of their basis with the parent list, but would field new toys or formations that represent the philosophy behind them.
Same with IG, same with LatD.

Guess my initial reaction (and cause for writing post) was based on the 'Skitarii list'.
Skitarii is, as far as my knowledge of 40k lore goes, just another term for tech gaurd. And tech guard/skitarri are the infantry/military wing under the auspices of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
If the list is viewed from a generic Adeptus Mechanicus/Skitarii prospective, having the armor restrictions present in the list doesn't make sense 'fluff' wise to me personally.
If viewed as a list from one specific forgeworld it makes perfect sense (to me).

At first glance, it seems to be presented as an overall 'generic' Skitarii list, from subsequent discussion, and upon viewing the other list pack present in the AMTL board it seems that this is not the case.

The varience in Skitarii armament (and lists) generally would stem from their forgeworld of origin, although specialization/assignment surely could play a role.
The forgeworlds (again per 40k storyline) tended to specialize in certain weapon types and weapon technologies (thus my Ryza/plasma example). Some have resident Titan legions, some do not, etc.
From that line of reasoning, this is one avenue list development could grow from. Also from that line of reasoning the current list doesn't seem as restrictive-as long as it applies to a particular forgeworld.

As it stands the Titan list, even though leagon specific, seems more 'generic' and more readily 'adaptable' to the various legions. The PDF/Skitarii list seems to be a little more rigid and forgeworld specific in terms of armor and apcs, although most of the list seems readily adaptable to other forgeworld Skitarii armies.
Guess certain aspects of the game 'systems' have more appeal to some and less to others.

If it wasn't for the 40k storyline I probably wouldn't play or collect Epic armies at all, and so I tend to look at it from a storyline/fluff perspective.

Nah, it's no more 'generic' Skitarii than the Steel Legion IG list is 'generic' Imperial Guard.

It just represents the PDF forces of one particular Adeptus Mechanicus Forgeworld.
That may well be a fairly widespread style of Skitarii, perhaps even the most widespread style, but there are also going to be Forgeworlds that have different styles, like Mars with their greater access to the full range of Super Heavy Tanks, Ryza with more plasma technology (Perhaps including an "Ordinatus Ryza" with a 4th tier Plasma type weapon system!), etc.


The Titan Legion list is fairly generic, ultimately due to the nature of the Titans themselves.

There is scope for a Legion list that concentrates on close combat weapons with less choice in ranged weapons, I guess.

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