Ork siege warfare |
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare  Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:25 am |
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The only problem I have with them banning this rule is that in the GW 40k fluff, the Guard and the SM are Supposed to be able to work together. The reason that they banned this combination is that they couldn't or wouldn't take the time to figure out a way to force players to field the combination correctly, ie not simply piecemeal, an artillery unit here, a tank unit there. That combination will result in a very powerfull force, the SM infantry and the IG armor and artillery. To just simply ban the use of them together is quite frankly, annoying.
my $.02
iblisdrax
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primarch
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:06 am |
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Hi!
Allies in epic has been a long debated question. From a fluff point of view IG and SM are the same armies, forces of the Imperium after all. From a balance point of view I think they should be kept apart because it does lend itself to abuse. Thats what we did in net epic and its worked well.
Primarch
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:31 am |
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In keeping with the SM1 rules, units are drawn as Companies or Battalions with supporting elements, so units could not be drawn piecemeal. You could have an SM Co. supporting an IG Bn or visa versa. Organizational Templates and Force Levels, plus a good set of rules for TO&Es makes it work without being "beardy" (to use a G/W term). That being said we didn't always choose allies and in many cases, fought a unit with all organic assets. However, SM1 Rules were designed with "allied" forces in mind ...  As in the fluff ... 
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Tas
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:30 am |
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I am a big fan of having Allied units and agree- it got banned because a loop-hole free rule couldnt be developed to stop "min-maxers".
I would suggest a percentage total allowed for allies (say 30%) and as L4 states, you must take full companies and any support dets must support the formnation they were bought with. IE an IG Support formation cant be attached to a SM Detachment.
If you want to restrict them a bit more and represent the (extremely realistic) problems of comms channels etc between two very different forces, do not allow them to dircetly support one another in firefights. This means you have to think carefully about how to employ your allies.
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Falesh
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:55 am |
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Thanks for the help all, it's clarified a number of things. We're going to start with 30%, same dets/companies and see how it goes. If it's too powerful we'll tweak it for the next game.
Falesh
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Tas
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:23 am |
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Sounds Good! Please let us know how it goes
Cheers
Tas
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:08 am |
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Yes, that's generally the way to do it. ?And as Tas, said the interoperability of units would be a factor. ?And you may have to think thru how you will use certain units. ?With activation, which is the hallmark of E:A, and a system we have always used, this should not be a problem.
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asaura
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:30 am |
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[quote="Tas,02 2004 Jan.,03:30"][/quote]
I would suggest a percentage total allowed for allies (say 30%) and as L4 states, you must take full companies and any support dets must support the formnation they were bought with. ?IE an IG Support formation cant be attached to a SM Detachment.
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Limiting company / support choices does not prevent min/maxing, which is why the "no allies" rule sounds good for tournaments. Cherrypicking is quite possible with that restriction in place. Consider a Steel Legion Artillery Company supported by Vultures and Deathstrikes supporting a Space Marine army. *shudder*
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primarch
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:14 pm |
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Hi!
Net epic came up with a similar optional rule limiting allies to a 25% of the armies total.
Primarch
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:50 pm |
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SM1 rules prevents "Cherrypicking", and as I said we started using activation since then. An SM Bn should be able to be fielded along side an IG Rgt. I've played 100s of games using SM1 Allies Rules and activation and know it works. The E:A TO&Es don't work for us and we won't use them. Tournament Rules I can see having no allies - it was even that way in SM1 1
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Jimbo
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:20 pm |
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| Quote (iblisdrax @ 02 2004 Jan.,00:25) | | The only problem I have with them banning this rule is that in the GW 40k fluff, the Guard and the SM are Supposed to be able to work together. ?The reason that they banned this combination is that they couldn't or wouldn't take the time to figure out a way to force players to field the combination correctly, ie not simply piecemeal, an artillery unit here, a tank unit there. ?That combination will result in a very powerfull force, the SM infantry and the IG armor and artillery. ?To just simply ban the use of them together is quite frankly, annoying. |
yes they are "banned" however I don't think you can get arrested for playing a combined IG/SM/Imperial Navy force ihn your games. It's only a game and it's only a rule...
How many people play monopoly strictly to the rules, 100% no deviation, no free parking bonuses, always auction unwanted properties... etc...
The combination are not banned, only if you play in tournaments are they not allowed... but in tournaments lots of things are not allowed...
If you want to play games with combined forces the only thing stopping you is YOU (oh and potentially your opponent, but generally you should talk to them about playing an interesting game rather than a competitive game).
And for those that want an easy solution, have two small armies, one IG and one SM.
Competitive play has it's place.
Epic is not just about competitive play.
In the following battle report
http://www.ifelix.co.uk/phoepic_b08_a.html
My Ork army would be "banned" as it consisted of 3000 points whereas my opponent had only 2000 points!_________________ Jimbo
Felix's Gaming Pages
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Almost Always Right...
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:31 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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I completely understand the tournament-legal restrictions. In SM2, it was pretty much SOP to field IG arty, a hvy co, and deathstrikes, with SMs in thunderhawks. Serious balance problems began to take shape.
I think making allies come out of the 1/3 points restriction on air and titan support would be sufficient.
Sure, your SM chapter could take a Russ company w/ deathstrikes, but then you would have minimal air cover and no titans.
I have been toying with an Alpha Legion list. Since they field cultists in 40K and are a guerilla force, I figured making 1/3 of points available from the LatD list but eliminating titan choices made sense. The only WEs they would have access to would be via the LatD forces.
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Neal
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:37 pm |
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Gang,
Competitive play has it's place.
Epic is not just about competitive play. |
I must cast my lot in with "Almost always right" Jimbo! LOL
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Ork siege warfare Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:51 pm |
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I agree ! ?The =][= won't come to your door if you field an SM Bn supported by an IG company ! ? ?SM1 limited Off board support (CAS, as we later included) and Titans to 25% of Total Battle Force Level (BFL). ?Certain forces could be Allies like SM, IG and Squats. ?You choose which was your Main Force. Say SMs, that meant based on rule requirements, you could take up to Regimental level assets. ?Your other Allied Force, say IG, could be limited to Bn level assets. ? ?You were restricted in what you could take. ?And Basic Infantry and Armor Formations/Companies were taken before you could choose say heavy FA. ?It works ... ? ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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