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[Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
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 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:31 pm 
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I really like the change in stats, especially for the Lictors and Genestealers. They were too good.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Moscovian wrote:
Are you intentionally trying to piss us off?

My comments here about diverging unit stats could be labeled at every one of the 4-5 Tyranid lists in development.

Through good intentions all round, it's turning completely chaotic.


Stating that we're trying to "overwrite" the other Tyranid lists is a funny way of saying that.

I apologise for using that particular word; I think "ignore" probably fits better?

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Broodlord - I'm planning on leaving as the fluff behind them seems to be rewritten patriarch fluff. I can always rename it however.

Biovore - I'm planning on leaving as that Ork fluff bit was introduced after SM/TL and 2nd edition. Plus we all have models for it.

Meiotic Spore - I can probably remove. I haven't playtested them. Tyranid should have crap AA anyway.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Whether or not the Ork Fluff for biovores was added later or not, they shouldn't be in a "first contact" list. If it's just a "we've got models for it" list, you might as well just use 9.2.1

I still think this list should include some genestealer cult elements, as it's based on the 2nd ed codex, and to diferenciate itself more.


Last edited by zombocom on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Quote:
Broodlord - I'm planning on leaving as the fluff behind them seems to be rewritten patriarch fluff. I can always rename it however.

Patriarch is much larger than a Broodlord IIRC, three or so times as massive. This may alter how you want the unit to be.

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:13 pm 
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For starters I'm sadden to see more variant progress while the base/core rules are still undefined. But I don't think this will stop happening from any of Variant Sub-AC's so whatever...

2nd, I can understand some variant stat lines as it being a "First Contact" list. (40k take on the Federation :D )But basic brood types should be the same. They haven't changed that much. Using the Phenotype excuse is fine but with EVERY unit? Really? I can understand for Zono and Tyrants and other large and notable creatures, but Steelers and Gaunts? Even with the IG list with FW-Types they have a majority of the list the same, like their basic infantry.

3rd, If this a Old Skool/First Contact why can't you rename it to the first Hive Fleet that attack? Eh? What was that Behemoth?
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
3rd, If this a Old Skool/First Contact why can't you rename it to the first Hive Fleet that attack? Eh? What was that Behemoth?

Behemoth was the first Hive Fleet on Imperial record.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Epic: Xenos is diving into a fluff gray area with the Squats and 'nids. We know the 'nids ate them but we don't know which ones did it.

Behemoth came nowhere near the galactic core (the Squat home worlds) but was around the right timeframe.

Leviathan came close to the core but that was much latter in the fluff when the Squats were supposedly destroyed.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Epic: Xenos is diving into a fluff gray area with the Squats and 'nids. We know the 'nids ate them but we don't know which ones did it.

It would most likely have been a splinter fleet of Hive Fleet Kraken.

Edit: Mind you, the whole thing about the 'nids eating the Squats has been removed from the background, along with the Squats themselves. Golgotha is now just a random Imperial world that Commissar Yarrick once fought the Orks on, etc.

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
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Epic: Xenos is diving into a fluff gray area with the Squats and 'nids. We know the 'nids ate them but we don't know which ones did it.

It would most likely have been a splinter fleet of Hive Fleet Kraken.

That does sound right for some odd reason I can't put my finger on. Kraken was the 2nd Hive Fleet Right? And Leviathan the 3rd and current?
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Dave
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Let's not get into a fluff discussion here, Bill'll have an aneurysm. No fleet was ever nailed down, hence the freedom with the fluff.

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Last edited by Dave on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
Epic: Xenos is diving into a fluff gray area with the Squats and 'nids. We know the 'nids ate them but we don't know which ones did it.

It would most likely have been a splinter fleet of Hive Fleet Kraken.

That does sound right for some odd reason I can't put my finger on. Kraken was the 2nd Hive Fleet Right? And Leviathan the 3rd and current?

Kraken was the second Hive Fleet, and unlike Behemoth it was not defeated in one battle, but instead fractured into dozens of small splinter fleets, which then scattered in all directions.

Some of those splinter fleets later chomped on enough systems that they grew large enough to be regarded as Hive Fleets in their own right.

Leviathan was the 3rd major incursion, but there are also several smaller Hive Fleets bobbing about introduced towards the end of the 40k timeline, including Medusa, Moloch, Jormungandr, Scylla, Charybdis, and even Colossus (HF of the Zoats) has supposedly re-appeared.

Basically as the 40k timeline ends, the Imperium is about to get munched on pretty heavily.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:54 pm 
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E&C speaks truth.

It makes sense for a central AC to take charge and control the stat lines that all the nid lists will use.

It is no use pushing ahead with these lists until we have that happening. Due to this, I will not test any Nid list till this actually happens - which is a shame as next to the World Eaters, it is probably my biggest force.

Pushing ahead with a published book under a NetEA banner also undermines (I feel) any development. I am not trying to make this personal, I am just stating fact. It would not be that hard as we have a few people ready to place their hand up for the AC-ship. As long as development is not 'behind closed doors' as some appears to be (well that is my perception), then I think the majority will be happy. If there is little to no imput by the community, and any opposition is 'attacked', then I feel we will never have agreement and divergent lists will always exist.

Compromise is what is needed between all the divergent lists, and those that refuse or fail to understand how to compromise (whoever they are) should not be in charge of the AC-ship.

Frogbear's 2c

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Good Points Frogbear...

Also I don't like the Ork style list building. That should be a Ork thing not Ork and Nids...
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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: [Epic: Xenos] Hive Fleet Onachus v0.3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Also I don't like the Ork style list building. That should be a Ork thing not Ork and Nids...


I thought the same when I first saw it, however I was quite happy to give it a go as it brings structure to a list that otherwise had little - prevented some of the min-max principles.

In building lists, it is always a struggle to find the 'best fit'. I think this list had a good idea for it. Only playtests and targeted (built for purpose of breaking it) list builds would tell in the long run however.

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