+1

Some thing must be wrong. I have agreed with (and not butted heads) with Ginger on two threads in the past 5 mins. I will go see the doctor now...

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Hellblades will stay at 15cm range for the NetEA list but drop to 3 for 200pts

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

So we've come completely full circle, even though the whole reason for the initial change was because 3 for 200 (with 2x AP4/AT6/AA5@15cm) was too cheap?

Do we really need to go through the arguments again on value of 3 fighters vs 2 fighters?

Morgan Vening

No we don't need to go through the argument again.
3 for 225 was the decision before but testing of that and of 3 at 200 with 30cm shots (which the recent discussions have generally agreed is superior) have shown that its not too good and would be fine at 200

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NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Very, very cheesy! But then again, not a tourney player so don't expect it to be used often against me and I can always pick who I play against.

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Well before you get all sniffy about tournament players nobody talking about how they used the the tactic was a tourney regular

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Didn't mean it that way, Steve. I meant that outside tournaments I can play whoever I want and agree beforehand to play what I consider the sensible way to handle this kind of tactic. In a tournament the situation would be out of my control as I'd have to abide by tournament rules and umpire consideration. So wasn't complaining about tournament players, but rather the circumstances themselves. My post could have been less ambiguous though.

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The recent discussion mostly said that the 15cm stats were more "Chaosy". Only two posters said it was better, and Stompzilla specifically caveats it's at least partly because it's cheaper. That you went with an option that wasn't listed, seems a little manipulative of the results. Personally, I'd prefer the 2xAA6+30cm at 200 be adopted to the 2xAA5+15cm at 200. But I wasn't given that choice.

I've heavily trialled Hellblades at the new(old) cost as both player and opponent, and I found them significantly undercosted. And now it seems we're back to square one.

Morgan Vening

I think its the case that against the majority of target (i.e. other fighters) the AA5+ is better - however against stuff with defensive AA its slightly worse (2 hits vs 3) given that defensive AA doesn't always take the attacker home.
However ground attack wise the 30cm version is far superior. I understand the sentiment that the planes overall are equal though that then raises the question of is the 30cm one correctly costed. Of course are the two abilities tradable? The AA is a bit more scarce now with more expensive oblits. Then again it hardly matters in the context of the list where you are seemingly always either going 2 fighters/2 WE or 1 spacecraft /2 aircraft formation/1we /1 aircraft formation/2we