We should perhaps be glad it went the way it did. The game was published, has some official merchandize to get new players interested, and is now solidly in the hands of the fans, who are managing it quite well, avoiding codex creep and all the other ills of the GW core games.

avoiding codex creep ? It's not as strong as elsewhere, but it's still here.

Well, the thing is the EA lists aren't produced at the same breakneck speed and with the single minded purpose of hawking as many new models as possible. Sure, some new lists are strong, but its so far removed from 40K and Fantasy that its hardly a comparable phenomenon, imho. Damn, have you tried playing 40K in the last two years? Its getting downright silly out there.

But, while there's resistance, more powerful units, formations and armies ARE culled back. That's not something I've ever seen happen in 40K, short of a complete edition reset. (Caveat, haven't played 40K in a while, but errata was never much GW's thing).

Morgan Vening

Don't worry. They haven't changed their ways.

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Codex creep - ironically it happened retrospectively to the marine list which was the first one out with a universal rules change

I agree with a lot of this, and I stuck to playing second edition Epic, rather than move into Epic 40,000 because I disliked the entire concept of over simplification of units and the loss of variety too much. The whole change from Epic Space Marine to Epic 40,000 was poorly explained in terms of the design philosophy, poorly marketed, and poorly supported, so there was never really any chance it was going to succeed in my view. Whether GW did this on purpose because they knew that Epic wasn't making enough money, and wanted to marginalise it, is a much more contentious issue, and one which is very much open to debate.

I don't feel, however, that Epic is solely where it is today because of the shift in the rules though, as the current rules system is vastly superior to Epic 40K in my view. In addition, Warhammer 40,000 underwent a massive shift in the rules between second and third edition, yet has arguably increased in terms of its popularity, so the answer cannot, assuming this is true, simply lie in the change in rules for Epic's demise as a core game.

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Ah, but the rules shift between 2nd and 3rd ed. for 40k changed the target demographic down to a younger age group to where it sits now (kids, 11-15)... whilst Epic's 2nd to 3rd transition changed the target demographic in somewhat of the opposite direction, something that the 3rd to 4th transition fully committed to...

...and adults don't buy toy soldiers. In general.

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E40K seemed very much like an experiment to me. I've read the rules, and get the impression that the developers really wanted to try new and "bold" concepts, to create soemthing that was different from what had come before. The result was perhaps not what they intended... certainly different, but better? Not so much.

Honestly, looking at the rules of E40K, I kinda like it.

Admittedly, I haven't played it. But it looks like it'd be quick and enjoyable, with just enough detail that imagination can do the rest.

And really, if you're going to balk at using imagination on your 6mm toy soldiers, I think you may have missed the point a little.

EDIT: That said, it is a radical departure from what came before. Without careful exposure to people who might be interested in it, I could definitely see it tanking.

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Though funnily enough people liked a variant implementation of it in BFG.

Probably because they weren't wedded to the idea of a Land Raider having a specific armament, not a firepower number. If there had been a BFG version that differentiated Plasma betteries from macro-cannon from etc, there would have been hell to pay.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Which rather endorses the point I was making.

The fact that the rules changed was not the sole reason reason, rather it's how they changed, and even then it's still not the only reason, as you pointed out in your first reply to this thread.

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