No one is saying the 2 point swing. Instead they are saying a 1 point swing - i.e. a free inspiring character. So I fire at target, I air assault in with a bm for coming under fire being ignored. +1 to me. Or if we both have no bm's its just +1 not +2 to you.

This has to change, regardless of anything else. They are absolute rubbish at their current points.

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I think complaining about not getting a response in the course of 3-4 hours, during the US work day is probably based on unrealistic expectations.
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The half-BMs boosts deepstrike assaults. However, it's very valuable for keeping late-game, damaged SM formations combat effective. It's the late game issues that were the driving force for the change. Prior to the half-BMs, all the 2-4 unit SM formations could do nothing but objective grabs. It wasn't very effective (which is why Marines stayed on the low end of tourney rankings) and it is very un-Marine-like.

So, if you want to kill off the bonus to deepstrikes, you really need to figure out a way to address the problem of Marines running for cover like little girls for most of the game.


(And before it comes up, "No -1 for outnumbering" gives bonuses to Termies and small-formation air assaults, so it has similar problems.)

How about "round down (to a minimum of 1)"?

It means the existing rule gets rid of the qualifier,
(rounding down - note that assault resolution will not receive +1 for having no blast marker if the formation has 1 blast marker before rounding down)
but still makes them a resilient against assaults in which they've taken some disruption.

Morgan Vening

The simplest modification to make it roughly similar but much more elegant would be "Half, rounding down, to a minimum of 1", IMO.

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I've just looked through the results I have online going back to 2006 and Marines on average win 3 events a year. In 2006 6 events were recorded and there will have been 9 in 2010.

Low point was in 2007 when Marines won no tournaments and a high of 5 (of in 2009. So far this year they have won 3 out of 8 with one to go.

I think 2007 can be put down to everyone turning to the dark side of chaos!

Out of curiosity, would the removal of the half BM thing make larger formations like tacticals boosted with transport or dreads a bit more desirable as a late game response force while the damaged heaver hitters end up in a support role?

It would seem to me that if you take lots of small hard hitting formations and end up ineffective in combat late game from attrition, the natural result should be to plan for that and bring larger formations that you can switch out for the weakened smaller formations rather than trying to keep the smaller formations combat effective with rules changes.

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-Vaaish

I'm okay with that.

Where were all you jokers and this suggestion when this was being tested for 3 years?

Yeah I suck, I know. :-)

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To a minmium of 1 was said a lot, including by me. Indeed I tried to get Matt to change it to a minimum of 1 in EpicUK as well.

Entirely possible. My memory fails increasingly often.

Vaaish has a good point, though the 'minimum of 1' thing would also work nicely.

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Hmm i always played it so because "in Epic all fractions are rounded up". So if a Space Marine formation has 1 BM it counts as having 1 BM regardless of ATSKNF or not.

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Halved rounding up would be even more elegant, as it would follow the standard rules convention on rounding, of course.

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It was argued that in Epic the rounding is favourable. Ergo the down to 0 thing.