The "vanilla" Terminators for the rulebook are already supposed to have Assault Terminators mixed with Tactical Terminators in the same Squad.

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Mixing termies is perfectly codex style, and the standard epic stats are designed to represent that, hence the decent CC, FF and heavy weapons.

Ok, if you truly want an unusable option feel free to add terminators stands for 85 each. Or maybe make it the CC2+ ones for 100 extra each? That gets both the requests in? Yes more powerful, yes you have hurt your activations and created a teleporting BTS, but if thats what you think it needs, I'd be fine with it.


The CC2+ ones are a 25% increase in hittability. The CC3+ with inv save would be interesting but why wouldn't you run a 3/1 of those assault to cannon ones to benifit from the higher save. Even if you aren't looking for every little edge why would you place the chaplain anywhere else as they have lost their invulnerable saves in return for fearless. Thats simply a buff for the unit and it doesn't need it.

If you have any increase in their CC ability, the formation cost has to go up. They are ultimately for teleporting in and entering close combat. That is what they are primarily balanced for. You will then find them a more one dimensional formation if they increase in price and become more cc focused.

The biggest problem with terminators is they are so good changing them is difficult and indeed even at 4 for 350 you can't help but consider them slightly underpriced.

I think thats a bit better than a regular terminator. First off they could lose one assault cannon each and still be worth 350 for 4 - because their core job is the CC assault. With one each they still have the reach which is all you expect if you can't assault. So thats a 25% increase on a per stand basis, and as the chaplain would of course be added to this stand its a bigger boost. I think the CC2+/FF- is a hundred considering those points, even the CC3+/FF-Inv save would be good, though possibly for 85 points.

(Though of course differentiating them stand wise is quite hard! - Easist way would be to have less terminators on a CC stand.)

Well, you lose warhounds and thunderbolts. Then you have to pay more for devestators, which while more powerful affects your activation count and don't really have much opportunity to be used well (they have plasma), you lose bikes and speeder formations in return for a similar ravenwing formation which costs a lot and can't do much as it can't garrison or air assault.

Essentially you just lose stuff and get nothing in return.

Out of curiousity...

Had anyone considered giving the Deathwing Terminators leader? To represent their generalized toughness of spirit, etc, etc? Fearless was apparently too much, so I would wonder if leader would be better.

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I keep thinking leader doesn't stack.

My other thought had been reducing the power of the DA Librarian's ranged and/or melee attack, but giving him Disrupt (to represent all the psychological crap the DA can/could do with their psychic powers. Before the 4th edition codex gave it all to C:SM, that is).

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Gosh! Let's do it forthwith, then!



Shame. I wish I could figure out a way to get some more DA feel for the list within the existing rules framework.

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Well, currently the attack has MW so disrupt would be minimal. There is also the question of how to handle disrupt during an assault - further it will only matter if the DW lose (like giving them fearless turned out).

Currently a terminator formation will cost 400 points for them and a chaplain. 1 stand will be fearless, they will shift 5 blast markers a turn, do 5MWCC3+ and 4CC3+ attacks and get +1 to assault resolution and have the option of 8 AP5+/AT5+ attacks instead. Terminators are already so good and so expensive there is little room for manouver.

Anything which makes them better makes them worse as it increases the cost and decreases your activations. As it is most builds are 1-2 activations down on regular marines unless you wish to go scout/assault marine heavy which isn't ideal (as thunderbolts and warhounds are great cheap activations) or compromise your AA cover.

So to sum up - if the chance to add extra terminator stands was added in would everyone be happy?

Seems so. Even if no one actually takes them in competitive environments.

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I can live with that option

I'd go for the CC2+ FF- terminator for 100.