+1

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Found an error playing against them yesterday.

Skyclaws only have a 15cm move (have Jumppacks, so should be 30cm).

Curses! I thought I got that typo! Grr! Thanks 'Skies.

BTW how did you find playing against them?

Thought I know the Skyclaws are supposed to have 30cm movement, having "jump packs" has nothing to do with that value.

Many units that have Jump Packs *also* have a 30cm movement, but that is purely coincidence. There are units that have Jump Packs and 15cm (Warp Spiders), while there are also units that have greater tham 30cm move and Jump Packs.

Just making that clear.

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Dobbsy,
Both of us were learning the new rules. Didn't have much problem munching a great company (well, at least not after piling on 9 suppressions before the assault; took 3 turns to finally kill it and the Wolf Lord attached), but there were quite a few tactical errors on both sides, and advancing into 2 x whirlwind packs was nasty. My big problem was that every time a hit got allocated to his hunters, it *just wouldn't die*, lost one thunderbolt and had a damaged thunderhawk because of that (both failed to activate on turn 2).
I miss-used my Warlord (banelord) and really only killed 5 bikes (in CC - they tripled into my deployment zone), 2 Vindicators (breaking them), and popped a landraider and 1 terminator.

He means BMs Angel.

Here are some comments and feedback from the WargamerAU forum regarding the list..

http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.p ... pic=103698

I wanted to come back to this list so now I have the time

When you started with the Space Wolves, you wanted to capture the theme of a 'pack feel'.

- Currently you have cheaper units under a 2+ initiative. This is fine
- They also have a special rule where they attain +1 to Double or Charge

Effectively you have removed the negative aspect of a initiative to an extent with no discernible negatives yet retained the cheaper troop cost.

The +1 to Double and the Charge (as I have shown via the various air assault builds with this list) are far from a disadvantage.

If I could suggest anything it would be the following:

Remove the Unblooded (or at least the Double move aspect - makes no sense why this part of the rule exists other than to get past the 2+ initiative) and look to promote the pack mentality. I suggested a rule once that I will repeat here as a reminder:

Space Wolves in an assault may count Supporting formations as part of their total number of units when determining formation size at combat resolution

What this does is promote a playstyle of supporting formations and enhances the feel that the force has the 'pack mentality' where they work in concert with each other. I know you may have a concern with troops not doubling with a 2+ initiative, but that is why you have the cheaper cost on these units - a rule should not be made to compensate for this.

Even the +1 on a Charge is too much as the air assault force sees no negatives to the cheaper troop costs. It just needs to be balanced a little more by upping the costs; probably in the area of air assaults overall or back onto the units.

That's it for now. I hope this helps a little with feedback.

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[quote="frogbear"]Space Wolves in an assault may count Supporting formations as part of their total number of units when determining formation size at combat resolution

What this does is promote a playstyle of supporting formations and enhances the feel that the force has the 'pack mentality' where they work in concert with each other. I know you may have a concern with troops not doubling with a 2+ initiative, but that is why you have the cheaper cost on these units - a rule should not be made to compensate for this.

[quote]

I like this Idea - a lot!

- F -

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Thanks for the feedback - especially since I know you have many fingers in many pies atm. Always good to have some.

And it isn't. The cheaper cost isn't just about the +1 to engage or double. I wouldn't say "no discernible negatives" either. If you take a look at their stats they are worse in a FF situation - something I've found to be a drawback. For example, in my last game - using swiftclaws - they were broken after the engagement because they didn't contribute enough firepower (as not all all could base up) and couldn't rally the following turn due to their initiative, thus denying me an activation. What's also missed here is the fact that they do everything else including - most importantly - rally on 2+. This is a definite problem when you consider modifiers. If you need them to march e.g to capture an objective they aren't as reliable.

I understand they can hit just as hard as assault troops on the turn they engage in close combat but they become degraded fairly quickly in following turns. Also, that's only if they all reach base contact - which with 6 units isn't guaranteed due to crowding etc and which further reduces what you hit with in combat due to worse FF stats for those on the outer.

In regards to the Special rule you proposed I'm sure we debated this idea but I can't for the life of me find it in the discussion I'm sure there was a reason it wasn't picked up. I'll go search again when I have more time.

Yes, however none of the concerns regarding a 2+ initiative are handled in an air assault list.

Those units do one thing - CC. The Charge - ok it is normally 15cm. The double move however is a bit much - not needed. There is no fluff reason for it. It just appears to be there for the sake of an auto double.

I know what you mean regarding the other actions - I faced the same with the World Eaters - so I know where you are coming from. It is not that. The cost in the units takes into account the 2+ initiative. For them to have a +1 on the double, as stated is too much IMO.

I would not follow it up if I did not think it would enhance the feel of the list. That's all. I do not think there was an objection to it, rather, there was support for it.

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The +1 to double (and for engagement) is part of the fluff. They want to get to the enemy as fast as possible. If they didn't get a +1 would they be happy about sitting on their hands waiting to get to combat? Of course not. So I don't think that represents them well. It's all about getting to grips with the enemy. Notice they don't get a +1 to March. It's because it's not a combat move IMO. Think of the rule like the Waaagh rule for orks only applied to headstrong Marines. They don't always do what you want unless you want them to get in the enemy's face.

Blood Angels want to get into combat fast
World Eaters want to get into combat fast
All Assault Marines want to get into combat fast
All Assault troops want to get into combat fast

Only Orks have the +1 to double and that is for reasons other than they want to get into combat fast

no-one gets a +1 to double because they want to get into combat fast

The logic is not there to justify a +1 on the double.

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What are the "reasons other" for Orks?