So at the beginning of a battle you assign 6 Space Marines (3 Rhinos) to drive 3 automated sentry guns around?

Sounds like exactly what Imperial Armour says using Tarantulas in mobile battles is: A waste of good resources.


No, you used your 3 Rhinos to deliver 30 Tactical Marines.

What a waste of resources it would be to use those 3 Rhinos to deliver 3 Tarantulas. Or even 6 Tarantulas.

You could have delivered 30 Devastators instead, and in less time, because Tarantulas would have to be manually hauled aboard, then hauled out again and set up in position via manual labour.


When I'm done playing with Green Stuff and glue!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

*headdesk*

It doesn't say that! That's how you've interpreted it. And while it's not an unjustified interpretation, will you please stop saying it says things that it simply does not!



You're assuming you have the Devastators to spare, or the Tactical Marines to spare. Yes, moving the Tarantulas around requires some commitment of time and men. But even assuming it takes four men (which it wouldn't, considering the ungodly strength of Space Marines) to move a Tarantula, you're still doing decently out of the deal.

In order to make best use of what is available, it might well sometimes be necessary to move Tarantulas. And it would make sense that a commander would plan for such contingencies.



Bah. If your nails aren't clean when you're working on a model, it'll come out with no respect for you and grow up to play Inquisitor. Fact.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

I'll do it if you will.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Children, please!

Seriously, why are you both slanging each other so vehemently about a very small piece of kit when it matters very little either way on the movement stats for this thing? A move of 5-10cm or no movement is bugger all difference. The game is abstrct enough to compensate either way and in the end it's not up to you two, it's up to the list designer to make the choice. You both have valid arguments and neither of you will quit that argument, so you have an impasse. Arguing like this just makes you both seem ... "anally retentive".

Give Frogbear a chance to make his decision.

That'd be why I'm trying my best to stick to short, to the point answers. :-)


It's very important to get toy soldier rules right dammit!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Understood. It just drags out an otherwise helpful and intersting thread to gigantic proportions.

Also...

Springs to mind in some way.

No. There is a difference. I've never said it said that Tarantulas were routinely dragged around the battlefield. I've just said it doesn't say they aren't/can't be. Which it doesn't.

I'm interpreting. But I'm not saying I'm not. You are.

But in any case, since frogbear has now seen this entire argument at least twice, it's probably enough.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Epic lists represent typical equipment, uses and behaviors. If it's not routine it's too small scale to be represented at this scale.

Sacrifices have been made before in the name of playability.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Regarding playability, making Tarantulas immobile (less useful) would be a good step towards avoiding making them an attractive popcorn choice, IMHO. Being able to buy a cheap, mobile (or semi-mobile) anti tank battery would be very attractive to Marines.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

See, the trick is that immobile units would seem likely to be either perfectly useful or completely useless - rather hit or miss. Keeping them somewhat mobile mitigates this - but allows you to charge more. Oh, and another option - why not just reduce their range to 30cm (or even 15cm)? Tarantulas can only detect enemies at a maximum of 24", after all. 15cm is almost certainly a terrible idea, but 30cm'd definitely tone things down (of course, it also makes them less useful, which makes them cheaper...).

What I did in order to discourage popcorning was to keep them mobile (which kept them useful, but also allowed me to charge more for them), and fixed the unit arrangement (which, in addition to getting the cost to a round number, made it trickier to specialize with them).

Really, I think that so long as they're worth from 175 to 200 points, people won't popcorn them. Any lower than that, and it's worth it to popcorn them unless they're really, really bad. At least, that's my impression.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

They

Don't

Move.

Yes. Because not once in the history of Epic development have stats been fudged, older sources drawn on, or new background created/extrapolated in order to make the game/list/experience better. Nor have differences between what was business as usual in 40K and what should be business as usual in Epic ever appeared.

No sir. That'd never happen.

You don't like the idea of them moving. That's fine. But telling me that it's impossible that they could ever move is silly. It's your interpretation. I have mine. You have yours. The protestations of the Skinner family that their interpretations are 100% fact are wearing pretty damn thin at this point.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

If you tie them to fixed defensive points like bunkers then they don't need to move and help with the theory of defense....

From Imperial Armour II re: Tarantula Sentry Gun Technical Specifications:

Max Speed - On Road: n/a

Max Speed - Off Road: n/a

From the 40k rules:

Type: Immobile

Crew: None

So, Simulated Knave, the current 40k stats for the Tarantula expressly state they can't move on their own. The only way mentioned in any of the flavour text is them being moved via vehicles.

Without movement they will be used in EPIC precisely as they are designed to be used in the flavour text: protecting important areas of the battlefield, read: garrisoned off of objectives. There will be no need for them to move as they will already be where they need to be, probably sitting on overwatch waiting for the enemy to come to them.

Certainly, in the older rules, they had some movement, and having a "Mobile Tarantula" unit might be something for another list, but for a "defensive" Imperial Fists list, the "immobile" Tarantula seems correct.