True, so maybe FF5+ with 2xhurricane bolters? Pretty much the same odds, and futureproofed for the Ironclad.

That's a perfectly viable option.

6 Bolters is roughly a stand of Space marines right? So 2 sets of 6 would be +1EA? And with all of the bullet flinging potential at short range, it would have FF3+ right?

Interesting observation:
A Land Raider is roughly the same size as a Malcador, Gorgon and Macharius tank. All are DC2 War Engines in Wh40k. The Land Raider isn't but has a superior Armour Value.

@notanoob: A stand of Space Marines is roughly 4 Bolters and one Missile Launcher or Flamer.

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I would think that the transport rules for WE would not work for marines that wanted to use Land Raiders.

The fact that they cannot simply jump in and out at leisure may effect whether they ever get used as transports if they were WE. It would all depend on their stats.

I like them the way they are.

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A LR crusader would have more difficulty targeting individual infantry than a squad of infantry, though.

After some thinking it seems to me that the Land Rauder might have the superior armour but because it has less crew (2 Marines plus Machine Spirit) one penetrating hit might be enough to destroy the Land Raider while the mor enumerous crew of the Macharius and Malcador (one for each gun plus loaders for the bigger guns) and the mostly empty space (apart from passengers) of the Gorgon will ensure that after a penetrating hit enough crew is still alive to keep the tank in action.

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So then the Crusader has 3 stands worth of bolters. That's a lot of firepower.

Even so, three stands worth of firepower blazing away on top of the assault cannon is a lot of bullets, I think it deserves excellent stats. Besides, they keep it abstract enough to ignore that in 40K, why would we be bigger sticlers about it?

I'd rather keep a lower stats and keep costs equal to the other LR types.

Without Missile Launcher/Flamer i would give Mariens FF5+. So FF5+ with +1EA fits the bill for the Crusader nicely.

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+1 to BL for the last few posts.

FF5+ +1EA would equal two stands of marines, if you think that marines with just bolters=FF5+, the LRC has 12 bolters, the equivalent to anywhere from 2 to 4 stands depending on how many guys you have per stand. And then you add the assault cannon.

all those weapons are mostly targeted by a machine spirit, though, have very reduced arc of fire compared to that of an infantry man, and must all fire from the same point (so lesser LOS/LOF). Be careful with straight number comparisons...

And I'd like to see LRC keep the same cost as regular LR if at all possible.

What happened to reverting to FF5+ and just changing the points cost to 75pts.
It's worked fine in the UK tournament circle and I've used it extensively myself.

85pts and changing the FF to 4+ appears to be a solution that only Hena wants.

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I'm fine with them at 85 per and FF4+. You're only loosing 5 points when you buy them in pairs and FF4+ is a better representation of its armament than 5+. Sentinels have 5+ with a single Multilaser.

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