Had a game with the Leviathan list tonight, 4000 points, drew against the worst possible list for Tyranids to face: Saim-Hann Eldar!

It was a hard fought fight, and I'll be posting a batrep, but I thought I'd post my army here for examination/comment:

The Beast Approaches - 3975 Points

Brood Nest

Synapse Swarm 1 – (BTS Target)
Warrior Cluster (3)
Warrior Cluster (3)
Zoanthrope Cluster (2)
4 Gargoyles
4 Gaunts

Synapse Swarm 2
Warrior Cluster (3)
4 Gaunts
4 Gargoyles

Synapse Swarm 3
Warrior Cluster (3)
4 Gaunts
4 Gargoyles
4 Biovores

Synapse Swarm 4
Warrior Cluster (3)
4 Gaunts
4 Gargoyles
4 Biovores

Synapse Swarm 5
Warrior Cluster (3)
4 Gaunts
4 Gargoyles
4 Biovores

Hierophant Prime 1
1 Hierophant with Synapse
2 x Large Bio-Cannons

Hierophant Prime 2
1 Hierophant with Synapse
2 x Large Bio-Cannons

Hierophant Prime 3
1 Hierophant with Synapse
2 x Large Bio-Cannons

Lictor Swarm 1
3 Lictors

Lictor Swarm 2
3 Lictors

Lictor Swarm 3
3 Lictors

Genestealers Swarm 1
8 Genestealers

Genestealers Swarm 2
8 Genestealers

I guess your idea was having intrinsic AA fire on most swarms and expect to generate most gaunts during the course of the game. I had spotted those small lictor swarms as being really good too. Having lots of teleporters can be a bit abusive, right? I remember people complaining about the 4 strong Swooping Hawk fms exactly because of that. Having said that, I think Hive Fleet Leviathan has a limit of 1 Lictor fm per 1500 points, so in this case you had one too many. Why didn't you include hive tyrants, tyrant guards and the skimmers?

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With no FF and an SR1, Lictors are no where near as good as Swooping Hawks Troupes; they're annoying, but can be pretty easily dealt with... *sigh*

As well, we were playing a 4000 point game. 4000/1500 = 2.666 which is rounded up to 3. In EPIC, unless explicitly told differently by a rule, one always rounds up.


Since I'm not forced to with this variant, I saw no benefit in mixing Infantry and Armoured Vehicles; a "pure" formation can seriously degrade an opponents ability to hurt it. Also, with the points one has to invest in the Common Broods to actually get a significant amount of AVs in a swarm, I didn't think they were cost effective. In retrospect, I wish I'd taken a *completely* Infantry army, with no AVs or WEs, but I really wanted to see three Bio-Titans stomping around the board! *laugh*

The list as written reads "0-1 per 1500 points" and 4000 only has two 1500 points in it. I see where you're coming from though.


Then that's a balancing issue Zombo needs to look at. Did you have the same feeling towards the other nid list? I guess one of the big differences is that Raveners are LV in the other list and far better than gaunts, making one have mixed targets in fms.

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On the lictor thing, it's intended that you need to have 4500 points to get a third formation. Lictors are also deliberately in 3s rather than 4s as it makes them much easier to break.

The all-infantry army is an interesting point, but not a good enough reason to artificially bump raveners and warriors back to LV.

I can certainly see why Warriors are your favoured synapse choice at the moment though; multiple models and easy to protect. Hmmm. Perhaps a weakened form of synapse for them, only making the formation 2+ initiative if they're the only synapse creatures in the swarm? Easily background representative too.

Considering truescale models are about the size of Ogrysn, I'd say that's a fair point.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I find it odd that you can have more Synapse Clusters than Common Clusters. But then...eveninWh40k now you can have an army completely made out of Tyranid Warriors

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Yup, warriors aren't an HQ choice any more, only the "tyranid prime" which is a sort of boss warrior. As such, and with their background of being weaker synapse nodes I can definitely see them being worse at synapse if they're the only one around.

Then a Tyranid Warrior unit should probably be a *lot* tougher, on par with Big Mutants or Ogryn, since an infantry stand is supposed to represent 3-7 of the individual creatures.

In 40k Tyranid Warriors have T4, W3, Sv4+, so, even just three have 9 wounds, almost as many as a 10-squad of Space Marines (worse save, obviously!). If we look at the standard "five infantry models on a stand", then that's *fifteen* wounds... that unit should be rock hard... I believe their "defensive" stats are even better than Ogryn's in 40k.

Also Big Mutants and Ogryn are models that the concept of "Heavy Infantry" would also seem to apply to.

Lastly, I'd rather see a price increase on the Warrior cluster over another exception to initiative. Each unit would probably be considered to have a "Prime" within it, as they are the leaders of their swarm.

I've no objection to seeing infantry Warriors gain better stats & become more expensive at the same time.

If an Ogryn unit can have a 3+ save, why not inf. Warriors?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yep, that's definitely another possibility.

Tyranid Warrior: T4 W3 Sv4+
Ogryn: T5 W3 Sv5+

Warriors have worse toughness but a better save.

I'd say it's a wash.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

But it doesn't though. Much as you'd like them to be, they're not LV or Heavy Infantry in their respective lists. If they were, fine, I'd have warriors etc as LV, but as it is they just stick out like a sore thumb.

For me, Broadside Suits are the absolute minimum size for LV status. All the nids I've changed to infantry are notably smaller than broadside suits in 40k/truescale models.

I'm perfectly happy to move to 3+ armour on them, it's defintely warranted. A fairly significant price bump too to make them less of a no-brainer.

Tyranid Warriors per Squad are 3-9. 9 / 3 = 3 Bases with 3 Tyranid Warriors each.
Ogryns per Squad are 3-10. 10 / 3 = 3.33 Bases with 3.33 Ogryns each.

So yes they are pretty similar. Oygryns are actually a bit tougher but it is neglegtible.

EDIT: Just noticed: Is it intention that the Harpy doesn't have stats for the Spore Mine Cyst?

EDIT": You also forgot to include the Pyrovore.

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Here's a link to my batrep with Leviathan v2.0:

Leviathan vs Saim-Hann

More comments to come!