E&C, you HAVE changed things in the construction rules. You've removed the limitations that 3.16 had on battle titans and free weapons and replaced it with a flat surchage for a titan mounting all the same weapon systems. This removes the issue with the TLD being a no brainer choice since the free weapons don't jump in cost after taking them.

For example, under 3.16 a reaver taking 2x inferno cannons and a CLP would be 625 points making it the same cost as a reaver taking 2x TLD and a laser blaster. Under 3.17 a reaver taking 2x inferno cannons and a CLP would be 575 points. Assuming the TLD was still 25 points, it's still worthwhile to consider options among the free weapons if you are tight on points.

Following this, a warlord could take 3xVMB and a laser burner for 725 points under 3.17 while the same setup under 3.16 would 775 points making the TLD a better option than the VMB.

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-Vaaish

Allow me to rephrase: We haven't changed anything to make the TLD less desirable than the other 25pt weapons. So it will still be flat out better than any other 25pt weapon.

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So a quick look - I see the 'rulebook' builds end up costing more.

So how is the 1 battle/2 scout titans split working out? Anyone tried an army of 2 battle, 2 scout packs, 2 singles, 2 support?

And can the army still be a drawing supreme army if you just go all out battle titans (presumably warlords due to the god machines rule)? Or maybe 3 warlord and 3 scouts/supports?

Possibly, though to a lesser extent than before.

And anyone who does relentlessly play that style is silly; why would you want to draw all your games?

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TRC:
I've tried something similar but we weren't able to complete the game. I think I ended up with 2 reavers, 2 scout packs, one single and two sentinels. I found it a lot of very fast activations and it felt a little spammy with the warhounds. I think e&C is changing it to each battle titan opens one scout and one support slot and each scout titan opens one support slot so this won't be showing up in the next iteration.

E&C:
In that case, it's competing with the Gatling Blaster, Apoc Launcher, and Titan CC weapon. I spent some time reviewing the posted battle reports for 3.15 since that should give a rough comparison as to how the TLD fits with those weapons (no free restrictions, 25 point TLD). Granted most of the batreps seem to be by TRC and the TLD does make a fair showing, but there is also a good number of Gatling blasters taken as well as Apoc launchers. If the TLD was the orders of magnitude better, I'd expect to see few gatling blasters since I see that as the most direct competition to the TLD. I think there will be enough variety in roles that the TLD at 25 points won't be the only option taken as the other weapons do provide some benefit. Apoc launcher providing an alternative indirect weapon as well as a cheap template. Gatling blasters having a niche with their equal performance against both infantry and armor making them complementary to TLD to escape the surcharge. The only weapon I have a hard time envisioning a place is the CCW but it has very small place as a "do not engage" sign for things in BTB.

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-Vaaish

The CCW is now 25 points as otherwise its a nigh necessity to deal with those titan busting CC units out there. Makes your bts (this was before god machines) very tricky to pull down.

Well God Machines is being modified so the CCW will again be a good armament for the BTS Titan.

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If you plan to draw everything in the games where you face an opponent who isn't that hot or an army that isn't built to deal with you you then go onto the attack. In some tourneys would be enough to win.

If you can only draw against good players, and only win against poor players, you're most likely going to end up with a solid mid-tables placing. And you'll have a pretty boring time doing it, too.

Any tournament where AMTL is legal, there'll be a slight change in Meta to bring a few extra TK weapons I'm sure, so it's doubtful there'll be many experienced players who wouldn't bring a tool or two to deal with Titans.

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I'm not sure there WOULD be a way to prevent someone from drawing if that is their aim. If you have build that are designed to draw, ones that have a shot at winning can play the same draw card based on the actions you take.

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-Vaaish

We shall also see what the new God Machines rule does to the "I'm playing for a draw" playstyle.

Now, noone commented on this:

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I'm not overly fond of this as it sounds right now but there isn't a whole lot to go by. I've got concerns about what would be considered a legal configuration and why everyone else should be punished if they have models that don't fit the legal aspect.

I wouldn't want it to be along the lines of Reaver, 2x TLD, and Apoc launcher, Reaver 3x apoc launcher, or reaver GB, Volcano, and Apoc launcher are considered legal and anything else is instantly 25 points more even if they aren't a "better" performing combination. It would seem to open the door for a more in depth rebalance of weapons costs to fit.

(yes, I know it's a broken record) I'd rather see the TLD point cost revert to 25 points and see what happens. I could be wrong, but I think with the recent changes in place the TLD will be fine 99% of the time since it won't compete with free weapons and the other 25 point weapons do have their place. To me this is the least invasive change to the list and at the very least won't break the list if it doesn't have the desired effect.

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-Vaaish

Actually, I would imagine "legal" would be the current weapon slot rules from Warhammer 40,000.

Other configurations would be allowable by paying a small surcharge.

Why?

Because I'm pretty sure it fixes the internal balance problems between the weapons.

It'd be fixed even more if there was no "mutable" exception to the rule, but that's clearly not wanted.

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Another option is to have two AMTL lists.

One for the players who want the "classic" weapons configurations, and another (Likely more balanced) list using the modern weapon slots.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Outside of the TLD what are the other internal weapons balance issues? I personally don't like the idea of a player being penalized for having a model assembled under older rules or because they like how it looks rather than performance. Surcharges and points increases should only show up where a particular combination makes something measurably better.

Secondly, implementing the 40k restrictions doesn't cover all of the available weapons. Options like the Plasma Cannon, laser burner, corvus assault pod, and Carapace Landing Pad don't exist in the datasheets. Do we make up where they go or drop them completely?

Last, why on earth would we do something to invalidate or penalize use of the standard configuration reaver as sold by GW? With the titan weapons from 40k, you can't field 2x TLD and an apoc launcher on the reaver. In addition to this, it also kills the fire support reavers since they would no longer be able to mount inferno cannons or quake cannons along with CLP or mount 3 apoc launchers.

All that adds up to a bad idea in my book. There has to be some other option than going this route or splitting the list.

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-Vaaish