You assume it will always come into play. Right now, it will 99%, of the time only affect warounds taken as singles. For all intents and purposes, I can't even remember the last time I had to apply the surcharge on a battle titan.


yeah we could do that. It would leave most optimized lists back with the TLD, and mean that my two warhounds with TLD on the arms wouldn't be proxied as VMB

BTW, any timeframe on when the next version might become actual rather than theoretical disucussion?

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-Vaaish

The moment debate settles.
I can put up a new version before we settle, but it'll be subject to change...

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

is it just the TLD holding things up? If so it seems we have two options, leave it at 35 and have it rarely taken or drop it back to 25 and always have it taken. either I think is fine for this version since it's been a bur for quite some time now.

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-Vaaish

Or just bite the bullet and say that the lower firing height of the warhound titan gives the TLD a 45cm range.

I'd sooner implement the 40k weapon slot restrictions, which should fix all internal balance problems between the weapons in a single sweep.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

If you do decide to take that route, it's highly unlikely that I'll have any interest in playing any version beyond the current one.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

I know, and it's opinions like yours (Which are widely held) that are why we've not trod that path.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Actually, comparing 3.16 and 3.17 more closely, I think that the TLD can go back to 25 points.

The problem came into play when reavers were limited to 1 free weapon before the free weapons cost increased to 25 points making the TLD a better choice after taking the free weapon. (lasburner for free and 2x TLD, 625). The solution was to up the price of the TLD so the free weapons would have some draw as an alternative to the TLD. With 3.17 the limits to free weapons have been removed to be replaced by the flat 25 point surcharge.

The key difference is that you just have to have two different weapon systems to avoid the tax but there is no charge on how many free weapons you can take allowing you to equip all free weapons if you so desire with no penalty so long as you took at least two different free weapons.

What this means is that the free weapons maintain their pricing advantage over the TLD unless you really want 3x VMB or some such loadout where you are forced to pay 25 points for the last weapon.

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-Vaaish

Do you mind if I ask why that is?

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

Generally it amounts to if you've been playing long enough (or bought almost any old models) then you will have an illegal weapon variant titan under the 40k slot restrictions. All my Titans are magnetised so I don't have that problem but there are a lot of very nicely painted titans around and removing weapons and then acquiring suitable replacements will annoy enough people that it is a fix of very last resort.

I wonder whether such "illegal" configurations could be done by replacing the "only x of the same weapon" rule with a "mutable weapons" rule, in that you could take a non-legal configuration by (You guessed it!) paying a 25pt surcharge?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I've always kept my weapons interchangeable. So, for me this isn't an issue as it is for others. The main issue for me is that I've grown weary of the 40K tail wagging the Epic dog. I have no problems with Epic armies capturing the feel of how they play in 40K. What annoys me is when someone says something like, "The latest codex for army X disallows units Y or weapons Z." To me, the 40K Titan weapon restrictions fall into this category. While I understand E&C's rationale for wanting to implement it, it irritates me when people insist that 40K should automatically dictate rules/armies for Epic (no offense intended, E&C).

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Can we try dropping the TLD back to 25 to see if it is problematic in the next version?

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-Vaaish

Being as we have changed nothing in the construction rules, yes, it will still be problematic.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

None taken.

I wouldn't even consider it, if it wouldn't also have the side-effect of balancing all the weapons systems perfectly. Which it would.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter