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Dark Angels

 Post subject: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:45 am 
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As the original downloads are gone i reupped the list here.

Edit: Current Version 1.3 uploaded

Original thread here: viewtopic.php?f=73&t=16710

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Last edited by BlackLegion on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Beat me to it BL.

In light of subsequent discussions and games I would drop the deathwing terminators and landraiders (they become regular terminators and landraiders in stats and cost), as a consequence you would really have to drop the LandRaider upgrade for masters, as fun as it is having big white land-raiders all over the place, reword the teleport homer rule to be 'terminators' not deathwing terminators, settle on one weapon load out for the mortis dred (what is the most iconic? - the twin autocannon? that would probably need a points boost to 75 points for it, and so to balance it the other dred would have to become fearless - however I think this is to expensive for a dred and the weapon should keep it at 50 points), up the tactical cost to 325 as they are actually quite nifty, and final tweaks like letting the vindicators have the vindicators upgrade, should the devs get the Land riader upgrade back then? it would mean the land raider upgrade for the terminators would have to be re-written. Would also consider either dropping pred destructors entirely for counts as purposes, or moving them into the vindicator formation pick.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:42 pm 
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This list made a showing at NEAT this year. 50 point Hunters felt too good. There were 5 of them in the army at NEAT.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:04 pm 
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They are 50 points? Possibly an error that in retrospect :) I've been adding them in my head as 75 for some reason!


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:10 pm 
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They're a no brainer (to me) at 50. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:26 pm 
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I'm glad this came back up. I don't see why DA need to have all there Tactical's replaced by Plasma. Why can't both Dev's and Tac's both have the option to be Plasma or Regular?? I just don't understand?? I mean in the Salamander's list they have mixed regular and Multi-Melta?

Why can't the RW Attack Formation have flexibility? I mean what's wrong with 6 Bikes plus 2 Tornado's and having any Bikes being swapped for Attack Bikes?? With the New RW Attack Bike, that means people would have to chose between Garrisoning or more Assaulty Bikes? Also I don't like how the Support Formation is set-up. I would like to see 5 Tornado's and 0-2 or 0-1 Replace for Typhoon's. I just don't see any RW force using just basic Speeders.

Also what did people think about the New Scout Sniper Profile I made up? I thought it was better than just giving Heavy Bolter Scouts the Sniper Ability??

For the DW I would like to try a 6 stand formation that Frogbear recommended. But I still would like to see some Assault Termies but if I'm in the minority, then oh well? I just don't see why IF would get them? After some Apoc Fluff says there so wonderful. I still stand that DW are the best Termies.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:50 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
I don't see why DA need to have all there Tactical's replaced by Plasma. Why can't both Dev's and Tac's both have the option to be Plasma or Regular?? I just don't understand?? I mean in the Salamander's list they have mixed regular and Multi-Melta?


Because this is Epic, and giving infantry weapon options at this scale is overly fiddly for several reasons.

Firstly, from a purely game-playing point of view the two units are going to look nearly identical, and so be very unfair on the opponent.

Secondly, it allows counts-as of standard tactical units to be used as if they had plasma guns. This wouldn't be possible if they had a mixed option.

Thirdly, representing that some of them may have different weapons just isn't done at this scale; hence all guard companies have autocannons, all codex marines have missile launchers. Pick the iconic weapon and stick with it, it represents a mix of weapons anyway.

Basically, for flavour and a slightly different playstyle this list nods to the DA use plasma weaponry by giving plasma weapons to the Tactical formations. The devestators keep the missile launchers as a respresentation of a mixed weapons load, and to show that the DA don't always use only plasma. The army as a whole will use a mixture of the two, so it's a reasonable abstraction.

You might as well argue that all units in all armies should have weapon options. This specific case is no different to any other.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
For the DW I would like to try a 6 stand formation that Frogbear recommended. But I still would like to see some Assault Termies but if I'm in the minority, then oh well? I just don't see why IF would get them? After some Apoc Fluff says there so wonderful. I still stand that DW are the best Termies.


Imperial Fists specifically use entire formations of Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Terminators, with no ranged power at all. DA use a mixture of the two; specifically a mixture even in each squad. This is already represented by the standard Terminator stats.

This list does make Terminators better than normal ones by having fearless. DA terminators are therefore the best, just not the most CC focused.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Also what did people think about the New Scout Sniper Profile I made up? I thought it was better than just giving Heavy Bolter Scouts the Sniper Ability??


I don't see the need; Scouts with sniper rifles already have an official profile.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:43 am 
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zombocom wrote:
Because this is Epic, and giving infantry weapon options at this scale is overly fiddly for several reasons.

Firstly, from a purely game-playing point of view the two units are going to look nearly identical, and so be very unfair on the opponent.

Secondly, it allows counts-as of standard tactical units to be used as if they had plasma guns. This wouldn't be possible if they had a mixed option.

Thirdly, representing that some of them may have different weapons just isn't done at this scale; hence all guard companies have autocannons, all codex marines have missile launchers. Pick the iconic weapon and stick with it, it represents a mix of weapons anyway.

Basically, for flavour and a slightly different playstyle this list nods to the DA use plasma weaponry by giving plasma weapons to the Tactical formations. The devestators keep the missile launchers as a respresentation of a mixed weapons load, and to show that the DA don't always use only plasma. The army as a whole will use a mixture of the two, so it's a reasonable abstraction.

You might as well argue that all units in all armies should have weapon options. This specific case is no different to any other.

Imperial Fists specifically use entire formations of Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Terminators, with no ranged power at all. DA use a mixture of the two; specifically a mixture even in each squad. This is already represented by the standard Terminator stats.

This list does make Terminators better than normal ones by having fearless. DA terminators are therefore the best, just not the most CC focused.

I don't see the need; Scouts with sniper rifles already have an official profile.

I would agree with you normally but there is a precedent with the MM in the Salamanders list for Tac'a and Dev's to have mix weapons.

To me(I might be the only one) the DW are the best and should be more assualty then Dorn's Lap Dogs :D But whatever. I thought dropping Fearless and changing the profile might be different. Since I thought people didn't like the Fearless thing.

What Official Scout Sniper Profile? Just regular Scouts with Sniper ability??

Btw, Did you get my PM Zombo??


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:54 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
I would agree with you normally but there is a precedent with the MM in the Salamanders list for Tac'a and Dev's to have mix weapons.


If that's the case then I think the Salamanders list is the one in the wrong.

Quote:
To me(I might be the only one) the DW are the best and should be more assualty then Dorn's Lap Dogs :D But whatever. I thought dropping Fearless and changing the profile might be different. Since I thought people didn't like the Fearless thing.


Fearless is fine in small formations, it's when whole armies and massive formations get it that it becomes annoying.

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What Official Scout Sniper Profile? Just regular Scouts with Sniper ability??


Yes, as in the sniper upgrade in the codex list, and the sniper rifles weapon profile on imperial guard snipers.

Quote:
Btw, Did you get my PM Zombo??


I did, apologies for the delay, I'll respond tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:25 am 
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@TRC: If dropping the Fearless stuff from Terminators i would increase the Deathwing Terminator Detachment to 6 units.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:29 am 
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BlackLegion wrote:
@TRC: If dropping the Fearless stuff from Terminators i would increase the Deathwing Terminator Detachment to 6 units.

Could you not do both? I would like to test the idea of 6 stand formation.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:39 am 
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BlackLegion wrote:
@TRC: If dropping the Fearless stuff from Terminators i would increase the Deathwing Terminator Detachment to 6 units.


Why?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:21 am 
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Steve54 wrote:
BlackLegion wrote:
@TRC: If dropping the Fearless stuff from Terminators i would increase the Deathwing Terminator Detachment to 6 units.


Why?

Why Not? ;D

IIRC The reasoning behind it is that DW field large amount of Termies and there 1st Company only uses TDA. This would show the large and more trained group of Termies compared to other chapters, also I think it helps the fight against WE as there are no allies allowed in the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:26 am 
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@Steve54: Because the Dark Angels can muster the largest force of Terminators. Noother CHapter can equip their full 1st Company with Terminator armour.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:13 pm 
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So 100 Terminators at 5 per stand and 6 stands per formation means DW Terminators should be a 0-3 choice. Of course you've all just painted your extra stands (above 20 for every chapter) up as another related chapter.

How much for a formation of 6?
The DA list is certainly interesting as that's my epic army but only as a secondary list behind the codex list (I don't have the models for the Ravenwing formation and don't agree with the no allies rule).


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