well i was saying making a new unit instead of using the sentinels to make them less desirable but still have a unit with large ZOC to protect from engagements (ie 3 units formation size, lowering speed)

Basicly im suggesting a sentinel nerf but keeping them as a support formation.

Page 4 : Macharius Command ank is given both dual Vanquisher AND Volcano.

If scout spam is a problem, what about increasing the size (and cost) of the sentinel formation.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

E&C, currently it's not so much that the unit can be spammed, just that at least one formation is extremely useful for protecting a nice expensive battle titan. There are downsides, but it would be nice if it were a bit more of a thoughtful choice between them and maybe forge knights or skitarii.

_________________
-Vaaish

So you make the formation larger, and then it's not entirely a no-brainer... ?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

so 8 for 200 or 6 for? Even large formations of LV tend to melt under any serious fire.

Probably 6 for 150 or 8 for 175.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

And put it in the warhound Category Correct?

I like the 8 for 175 idea as it keeps the unit as One Blister without any spare. (Cynical I know but you have to think about these things)

I also can't help but feel that you just don't get 300 points of value out of Skitari, especially when you consider that the have to be bought for a Pod. Not sure what could be done about it though. It just feel like I have to put a lot of effort in to fitting them in to one of my lists and then they struggle to actually do anything that a Warhound or Sentinels could not have done for less impact on the list.

Kris

e&C: How does bumping up the cost and size make them less of a no brainer? More sentinels makes it even harder for someone to penetrate since the formation lasts longer and doesn't break as easily. @175 points for 8 you are getting a 25 point discount on effectively two sentinel formations and only taking a single slot. That seems MORE worthwhile rather than less and it's still one of the cheapest formations; it's still only barely more expensive than a tbolt squadron. TBH, would we really lose much if the all titan legion didn't have access to them? I mean, aren't warhounds supposed to perform the scout role rather than sentinels?

_________________
-Vaaish

Well I was thinking that it would be moved from the support slot to a scout slot so its sentinels or a warhound pack

Ok, We finally got most of a game in last night with the changes to the Titan Legions list. Rules were AMTL 3.17 and steel legion IG from the rulebook. It was a pretty quick game which didn't leave a whole lot of time for pics or writing down individual activations so this is more of a highlights batrep.

Lists were as follows:
AMTL:
Warlord 850 (2x apoc launchers, Gatling blaster, Laser Blaster)
Reaver 625 (Carapace landing pad, 2x Inferno gun) (legate)
Warhound Pack 500
Warhound 275
Warhound 275
Warhound 275
Sentinels 100
Sentinels 100

As we were talking we decided it would interesting to give the 2x quake cannon and CLP reaver a go since in a previous game I'd found it somewhat difficult to get the 2x inferno cannon one into position and the MW template sounded nice. That changed my list to this:

Warlord (2x apoc launchers, volcano cannon, Laser Blaster, legate)
Reaver (Carapace landing pad, 2x quake cannons) (CML)
Warhound 275
Warhound 275
Warhound 275
Warhound 275
Sentinels 100
Sentinels 100



IG:
Superheavy Co. (2x baneblade 1x SS) 500
Superheavy platoon (1x SS) 200
Superheavy platoon (1x SS) 200
Regemental HQ 500
+fire support 150
Mech Co. 400
+fire support 150
+Flak 50
Artillery Battery 250
Deathstrike Battery 200
Flak Battery 150
Thunderbolts 150
Sentinels 100

We deployed in corners. Turn one started out with me rolling a 1 for the strategy phase which he beat handily with a 6. Seeing the reaver as the most threatening thing there, he fired with his artilllery battery and scored two hits. He retained with the deathstrikes and hit with both rolling a 5 and a 6. One dead reaver and goodbye BTS. Most of the rest of this turn was spent getting into position and trotting two of the warhounds into a stand of trees on the right flank and the other two behind a hill on the right flank. He moved up some and took a potshot at my sentinel with the his thunderbolts making three hits and dropping one after saves (the only saves I pass the whole game).

Turn two opened with a tie on the die rolls so the birthday rule came into play giving him initiative again. He attempted to activate his sentinels and failed gaining a BM. I activated sentinels 2 (the one strafed by the tbolts) and managed to get them into the trees and into position to claim the second objective on my half the board. He used his basilisks to strip a shield from a warhound in the trees. I put the warlord on overwatch guarding the two objectives on my half the board from cover. Sentinels 1 went back on overwatch. One warhound on the left flank went on overwatch and the other moved into position to clip turn three. He had intermingled his superheavies (2 BB and 3 SS) with a mechanized Inf company in ruins. THe Mech co went on overwatch. His thunderbolts strafed the warhound he'd already targeted with the basilisks scoring another two hits dropping a shield and a hit from the warhound after I failed my save and reroll. The warhound broke and moved off toward the edge of the trees to lick its wounds. The second warhound was shot at by the hydras stripping its shields and scoring a hit which I again failed to save. that warhound countered by moving up and unloading into the hydras killing two and breaking the formation which moved back to the blitz objective. End of the turn all AMTL formation rally warhounds regain a shield, no IG formations rally.

Turn three starts with me losing the roll again and he forced me to act first. I began by activating the warhound that had toasted the hydras and move him up carefully behind some ruins 15cm away from the broken (and now intermingled with the BTS formation) hydra limiting the models in LOS and overwatch to the four fire support stands and the one hydra attached to the BTS. He scores three hits. I fail all my save rolls and the warhound evaporates ending my chances of shifting the flank. I retained with the second warhound on the right flank and toasted his basilisks to take pressure off my remaining titans. He responded by moving up his superheavy co and toasting the warhound with two battle cannon hits and a 5 on his d3 roll for damage. I adjusted the position of sentinels 2 to ensure there was more than one unit able to hold the objective. He attempted to bring in the thunderbolts which failed the activation.

We were running out of time so my next activations were to keep sentinels 1 and the warlord on overwatch. He shifted his shadowswords a bit. I then activated one of the remaining warhounds on the left flank to draw overwatch fire which stripped two shields. Once overwatch resolved the warhound retaliated by taking down a chimera and an infantry stand.

We were running out of time so I retained with my last activation, the warhound sitting behind the hill on the left flank, and managed to pull off a clipping assault on the mass of IG in the ruins. We didn't have time to completely resolve the assault outside of my FF rolls which scored two hits on infantry stands, giving me +4 to the dice rolls. At this point we were tied with IG taking BTS and Defend the Flag, and me having They Shall Not Pass and Defend the Flag. Turn 4 would have been very much determined by the final outcome of the assualt and subsequent end turn rallying since I had very little available combat power to take on his large formations if they were unbroken.

My thoughts are still that the God Machines rule doesn't do much to add flavor and hands over BTS to TK heavy armies far too easily. Against marines it makes little difference since they will have to commit a significant force to take any battle titan down. IG was just laughable with the deathstrikes and I can't really comment on anything else. The loss of the reaver in the first activations put me on the defensive the entire game combined with the large IG formations being difficult to shift.

Secondly, I feel that the new list structure is too constricting for selecting units. Taking three cheap reavers eats up 1800 points opening up 6 scout slots and three regular slots. If you take two warhound packs to have mobility and a bit more staying power you are around 2800 points which leaves room for sentinels and maybe a CML. If you drop a warhound pack for a suicide single, you have enough points to take a couple of sentinels and a thunderbolt squadron plus a legate. Either way you go, the list ends up heavily focused on warhounds thunderbolts and sentinels. I think switching the scouts to one slot and the support to two slots per battle titan would help this out. True, you could still field a list with an emphasis on warhounds by taking cheap reavers, but it also opens up the list to allow alternate builds with more support units and keeps the CML from being the easier choice for AA with sentinels and thunderbolts fighting for support slots.

Last, I can't see the point in taking a TLD at 35 points with a 50 point Laser blaster. you get most of the firepower of two TLD on a single hard point and you don't have the odd points to deal with that effectively make the TLD more expensive than 35 points in the end unless you take large numbers which cuts heavily into your points. I also can't see the point in taking forge knights. I've tried these units out of several occasions but I find them far too fragile for their 400 points. Most of my experiences involve them being assaulted/assaulting or breaking and are subsequently slaughtered.

_________________
-Vaaish

The Warmonger does seem to be a bit better than the Imperator, mind you...


I don't mind modifying how they take up support slots, but multiple independent formations of Skitarii should be reserved for the Skitarii PDF list.


Well in the PDF list they have the Corvus pod, the Gorgon, and the Chimera... that's more transport choices than most armies get.

And in the AMTL list, well again, I don't want too much emphasis on the infantry options in that list

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter