Stick it in your signiture if you like it that much.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Sounds a bit Jeremy Clarkson..

*dptdexys, for example, is quite probably the best Epic player... in the world.

I found, at the time, there wasn't enough blind testing done not that the then experimental lists were tested against each other too much.

It's quite easy to tailor a list to an opponents if you know which list you will be facing, you even find it can happen unintentionally at times.

The main problem with the Feral list was the shear number of units that a force could take, it was soon noticed (in our group and in some others) that lists not tailored specifically to dealing with hordes couldn't kill enough stuff to really affect them.
It was hard,still is, to do double clipping assaults to try to wipe out formations ,due to speed of junkas and their countercharge (troops still mounted could FF also meant a counter charge of 15cm when troops jumped out).
Also formation sizes 350 points for 36 units often cancelled BM bonus' even after kills.

This has lead to the recommendations of dropping the 'UGE Junka Brigade option and a slight formation cost increase (still capable of taking large numbers but not at a discount).
Also limiting Squig catapults to 3 was also recommended .
FF from trucks was removed and a few points tweaks were introduced.

The Seigemasters were similar to the Ferals in the sheer number of units capable of being fielded but it was the number of formations that could be taken that caused problems (22 formations if I remember correctly and all fairly useful).

The Eldar too were found by most ,but not all, to be slightly too good so a few slight tweaks were brought in .
Namely the removal of Spirit stones but also the new pulse rule and warp spiders being removed from transport options in wave serpents and falcons.

I don't want to come across as big headed now do I

Thanks for the details on the Ferals dptdexys.

I think it shows again that it is the extreme armies that tend to "break" EA (extreme numbers of units in Ferals, extreme activations in Barans).

That trend continues in a lot of other armies that have been/are hard to balance.
AMTL extreme WEs
Nerons extreme teleporting/portaling
Tau extreme air power/extreme shooting/extreme lack of assault power
Eldar extreme number of special rules

This one set me laughing for some reason.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well I think we all agree they started with ONE too many

Actually, they could.

It was actually a much older version of the list. Dreadnoughts at 175, Teleporting Termies at 350. But it wouldn't have mattered, he would have taken one less DN formation, and it wouldn't really have changed anything of note. Given the interest in the lack of information I provided, I'll endeavour to write up the notes into a Battle Report this weekend.

The Terminators only participated in a single combined attack. Which pre-result, had them up by 8. The other three Assaults were Errants on Dreadnoughts, Speeders on Errants, and Speeders on Lancers.

And the test was blind. Most of the time, we play with fairly rounded lists. But occasionally, one of us (usually me!) plays a "go hard or go home" list. When I saw the list, I was actually fairly enthused. When I started playing, that's when it went pear shaped.

Morgan Vening

The best laid plans o' mice and men..

It serves me right. I saw the list, I had that happy bubbly feeling, thought to myself "All I've got to do is survive the initial Terminator assault, and the game's in the bag.". Set up correspondingly so that he could charge maybe two formations, or have so much additional supporting FireFight he was gone. Thought "Hey, I might even win Initiative, then he's toast!".

Yeah.

Well...

Umm......

Morgan Vening
- KnightWorld Sub-Champion

that was, erm, optimistic?

Not really. Yes, it's a 1 in 6 (actually slightly more (about 1 in 5.3), and substantially more if I'd enforced the birthday rule (1 in 3.6)), but if I said those were small odds, having 3 knights fail Dangerous Terrain would have driven my crazy.

It was more that the position would have allowed the extraction of both my formations without loss, and his 1300pts worth of Terminators would have been a lot less useful.

Morgan Vening
- KnightWorld Sub-Champion