i think a lot of us are in agreement with this. so, if a formation fails to activate, does it have to use it's move to come onto the board or can it take a hold action?

as I said before, as I recall Jervis' intent on this point, you MUST use the Hold action to come on the board if you are legally able to do so.

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Necron Army Champion
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The thing is, we're not looking for Jervis's intent, since it can no longer be verified, we're looking for how *we* want this to work, and work fairly and plausibly.

I was quoting rules above, not as evidence of a position/ruling, but to show that some assumptions about what's in the rules are not actually there and that decisions on such matters need to be made.

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I must say I always thought that FAQ addressed whether air transports had to land in turn #1 when they were carrying troops, to which the answer was 'No'.

In any case, we come back to the question of
1) Whether to permit off-table formations to 'burn' an activation via Marshall mid-turn, or whether to apply an FAQ to 1.6.1 to the effect that it does not apply to off-table formations, (which can 'choose' not to activate at the end of the turn).

2) To Chroma's point, we possibly need an FAQ to the question of off-table rallying in general, and whether it is permissible or not.

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For personal preference I would obviously prefer to allow mid-turn Marshalling and also off-table rallying.

1) Playing to an Activation advantage is integral to the game however 'gamey' it may feel. Choosing 'not to activate' penalises the player IMHO by effectively giving his opponent a "free" activation.

2) I have always allowed off-table rallying - basically Marines in THawks - and would be loathed to 'nerf' them in this respect.

I might add that I have never had any complaints about playing this way in the many years I have played round the UK

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Yeah, I have to agree.  Jervis is gone.  We're here.  And constantly reminding us what Jervis would do kinda grates, no offense.  

I doubt Jervis ever saw the Necrons played as much as any of us have.  And even the mighty Jervis Johnson was a firm believer in the living rule book (meaning things change).

Ultimately the NetERC needs to make a call.  If you can do it reasonably soon I can include it as an FAQ in the Raiders 2.0 book just in case.

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yes, but one shouldn't lightly blow off the intentions of the people who's work got you here in the first place either.

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Necron Army Champion
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Few! A lot to read.

So my take (as neal said before):

1) A reserve formation may choose whether or not to activate.

2) A reserve formation may rally in the end phase as normal.

3) A reserve formation which chooses to activate has to attempt to move onto the board.  Much like a formation obligated to move out of an enemy ZoC or into formation coherency, it must attempt an action which will allow it to enter play.

4) A reserve formation which fails to activate takes a BM as normal for a failed activation.  It has the normal Hold options - move, shoot or regroup.  If moving onto the board is restricted (e.g. ZoC blocking the gate) that option is not available.  Shooting is not available off-board.  Regrouping could be used to remove the BM.

So a Marshall action can be used by a formation held back in reserve for use of a gate/portal. But it has to use the Move part of the action to move on the table. So no 0cm move option here unless all portals/gates are blocked.

I would also rule that even an attempt to use a gate/portal will "use up" the gate/portal for this turn.

If all gates/portals are "used up" you can't nominate a reserve formation to take an action.

I would also say thatit is perfectly eligible for a Necron formation to use a Marshall action to move back into reserve and then regroup. Because thats what Necrons do. They phase-out/retreat to rebuild their losses and then come back.

Ok theoretically the following coukd happen:
Turn 1 a Necron formation assaults out of a portal and consolidates/withdraws back through another portal. End of Turn it rallies and gets one unit back.
Turn 2 it takes a Marshal action and thus uses an un-blocked portal to move on the board and regroups (regeneration lost units).  Here it doesn't matter if the action passes or fails. If at least one portal ins't blocked the formation has to move on the board. If all where blocked it would have to attempt an Engage action.
OR
Turn 1 a Necron formation uses a portal to move on the table.
Turn 2 it uses a Marshal action to move through a portal and then regroups.
Turn 3 or 4 it takes a Marshal action and thus uses an un-blocked portal to move on the board and regroups (regeneration lost units).  Here it doesn't matter if the action passes or fails. If at least one portal ins't blocked the formation has to move on the board. If all where blocked it would have to attempt an Engage action.

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Still very unhappy about 'forcing' the off-table formation to enter the battlefield if it takes an activation. This is still a penalty to the player, who must either give his opponent a 'free' activation by choosing to pass, or he must place his formation in a disadvantageous position. Neither seems fair to me.

The example quoted elsewhere is a Storm Serpent that fails to activate as intended and so does not double or march as intended. Being out of position this ruling would potentially be very disadvantageous to the Eldar player.

Equally I thought that the ruling on an Eldar formation that failed to activate was not considered to have 'used' the relevant gate.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

why is there some people insisting on moving out of the portal on a failed activaion? if an on board formation fails is it forced to move toward the enemy? no, so why penalize the off board formaions?
again, the answer is simple. if we establish the off board formation must choose an activation that would bring them on board, it alleviates all problems. are you going to take an engage w/ a decimated formation? of course not. so you would choose not to activate it at all. it could wait till the end of turn to loose BMs and bring back units.
simple

and before someone comes up w/ "gamey" situations where you would try to activate a formation hoping it fails so it could take a hold action, that's a gamble i would love someone to make if they were my opponent. a 5 in 6 chance or at worst 2 out of 3 that you are going to pass, forcing you to bring that decimated formation on board AND using up a portal, i'll take that as an opponent every time. and if you succeed.... well fail your roll, sure you get to bring units back, but your still off board.
again the answer is simple

Why? The off-board formation can just choose to not activate. It has nothing to do with the Storm Serpent until it activates to use the Storm Serpent's wraithgate.
You don't have to nominate all formations whoch you want to keep the initiative. You decide case by case after a formation has passed it's action test.

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Well, that isn't quite what Neal stated but its close.



This is contradictory to how Eldar are played.  And if I can draw a strange comparison, it is also contradictory to how Commanders work (if a commander fails to activate, the formations he was intending to command are not 'used up').



Actually it matters a lot if the action passes or fails.  If the marshall passes you could move and regroup.  If it fails you can move or regroup, but not both.

Since you've nominated this formation in the example to marshall, it would be obligated to move.  However if all the portals were blocked you could not take the marshall action; you could only engage or hold/regroup off board.



Nope.  Once again it does matter if you pass or fail the marshall action roll.  If you pass you can move and regroup.  If you fail you hold, which means moving or regrouping.

And it doesn't matter if you have 14 portals open on the board.  You don't have to enter the board unless you want to.  It's a really simple IF-THEN function...


IF you choose to activate a formation off-board, THEN you must try to move it onto the board.
-> IF your activation roll succeeds, THEN the move you make must take you onto the board.
-> IF your activation roll fails, THEN you may regroup off board or you may move onto the board.

IF you do not choose to activate a formation off board, THEN you do nothing.
---
And I'll summarize everyone's argument so we don't have to read it all again.

Moscovian agrees with Neal.
MNB agrees with Neal.
Corey thinks this is abusive because of the regrouping off board.
Ginger thinks you should be able to use marshall actions off board and not come on the board (called 'burning' an activation).
Chroma agrees with Ginger on the burning of activations but also agrees with Neal on the regrouping off board.
Hena agrees with Corey that the regrouping is abusive but disagrees  with Ginger that burning activations should be allowed.
Corey worships Jervis.
Chroma wipes his feet on Jervis' shirt.
Moscovian has transcended Jervisdom and has developed a god-complex.
Zombocom is annoyed and waiting for the NetERC to make a decision.
Stompzilla is annoyed that he posted twelve times and nobody is listening to him.

Do I have this right?  

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

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"Play up and play the game"

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

It sounds like a recap from an episode of Soap.

And Morgan Vening better not be mad that I left him out of that drama.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Argh! Didn't remember that on a Hold you can only Shoot OR Move OR Regroup.

I shouldn`t post at 3am  

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