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Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Shadow Hunter

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:34 pm

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Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am
Posts: 1747
Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK

Okay, I read the thread.

I too can't understand the +40pt difference for 4 BW over 1 BF. It seems a bit high. I do see the vulnerabilities of the BF, but think that at only 100pts, that's already been taken into account for. BW should be around 30pts max I reckon (though I did agree 25pts was cheap, although the Chimera is the same cost for a better vehicle)

The points value of the warband is a lot better. 250pts was too high for the first cost. I think losing the free boyz on the Nobz is a good thing too. If you want more boyz, buy 'em.

50pts for Stompa was cheap, I dont have a problem with 75pts.

6 Stormboyz @ 175pts is still over 29pts each rather than 25pts for extras. But I can live with it, as they are their own formation this way.

KOS is good news, since I wanted a large unit of them. This makes it much better. Although up to 16ish units the previous list was cheaper.

I wasn't really bothered by a BB anyway. So I had not played around with that option. I do think taking out the option for boyz/nobz is a good idea. It should be a unit of tanks, rather than another warband.

Big Gunz up to 150pts!!!!

I wasn't gonna use them at 100pts, so definantly wont now.

I take it Landa's are always in a formation of one now then. Glad they can carry dreads and kanz now.

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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:19 pm

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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

I think that I'd convinced that Jervis under player prodding wants to return the Orks to the same balance level that they had in his beloved E-40k (the last failed edition).

This means that the Orks simply put, will stink compared to other armies.

I know I'm repeating my mantra, but I've seen the Orks go from very competitive (and even innovative) to being the same ol' pattern slugging army that they were in E-40k.

We can say that it gives the army "colour flavour," but it also makes the army one of the least fun to play. The other two stock armies are simply more competitive.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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CrimsonFury

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:36 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:04 pm
Posts: 766

Quote (Shadow Hunter @ 04 2003 Nov.,12:34)

50pts for Stompa was cheap, I dont have a problem with 75pts.

Big Gunz up to 150pts!!!! ?

? I wasn't gonna use them at 100pts, so definantly wont now.

I take it Landa's are always in a formation of one now then. ?Glad they can carry dreads and kanz now.

Yeah, the stompa got an extra big gun in the last update of the list, thats part of the reason for the points increase (stompa mobz are still 200 points, so now you get a discount for buying them in bulk

)

I agree on the big gunz, not sure why they went up so much. For the same points cost you can buy a BlitzBrigade with 4 gunwagons. You get 1 less gun, but 3 times the speed, 5+ armour instead of none, and double the CC value.

Yes the landa's are now formations of 1. It seemed a bit too powerful to be able to drop of 30 Ork units in a single action. Plus they would have been really hard to take out with flak\interceptors when in formations of 3.

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CrimsonFury

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:37 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:04 pm
Posts: 766

MaksimSmelchak, using the changes above, what is it about the Ork army that you think makes them unfun to play or uncompetetive?

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nealhunt

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:47 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Big Gunz: I think they are okay for the price of the Big and Uge formations. In fact, Uge formations are still the same price as before. I would never field them as less than Big, though. I have fielded them as Big/Uge, adding enough boyz and nobz to get the mob-up bonus and leader abilities. Don't understimate their combined firepower. They can be quite shooty.

I think a Big formation, with 2 Nobz and 4 Boyz/Grots will have a lot of fire (10 AT/AP5+, 8 AT/AP6+) and durability (+1 mob up, 2 leaders, 4 grots to soak hits/BMs, all infantry) for a 395 point formation. I'm definitely willing to try it out.

Also, now that the upgrades multiply with the formation size, you can upgrade a Big formation with 2 Supagunz for a 4BP barrage; 3 upgrades/6BP for a Uge formation.

Battlewagon/battlefortress: I think the 100 for a Battlefortress versus 140 for the battlewagons is a bit much. I agree that 30 points would be better, but I doubt it will change.

Overall, I think it's okay, and it did fix some potentially abusive problems. I'm just kind of ticked that after getting to the "minor tweaks" point there is a major, last-minute reorganization.

Maksim: Had you noticed that you can now take your multiple supastompas? A Big stompamob can have 2, 3 in a Uge formation. Also, both stompas and supastompas got an extra gun (big gun and soopagun respectively). I thought for sure that with your stompa fetish you'd think that a grand improvement.

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Shadow Hunter

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:20 pm

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Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am
Posts: 1747
Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK

I'll have a play around with some lists tonight.

My girlfriend phoned me up at work, to tell me my package from forgeworld just arrived, so I now have 3 guntrukks with zzap guns and 3 guntrukks with armoured top to add in. Plus the defence line set and ruined Librarium.

And tommorrow my Digital camera is due to arrive, so I can start taking some pics. :blues:

Onto the list - where is it that landas can now carry dreads? I didn't notice it in that thread.

I suppose the big gunz do have potential, but I dont want a stationary force. I have a pic in my mind of how I want my force to look, and I dont think they will fit in.

I do agree though, that 2 soopa guns would be very effective (if pricey)

It is annoying that there's just been a big revision, but then the rules aren't released yet. Best to get it right before they are.

At least now when I get to try this out against my newbie friend, it wont seem like I have an unbalanced force. I dont want him thinking I've chose the stronger list.

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CrimsonFury

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:17 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:04 pm
Posts: 766

Quote (Shadow Hunter @ 04 2003 Nov.,15:20)

Onto the list - where is it that landas can now carry dreads? ?I didn't notice it in that thread.

Jervis's post about allowing dreads\killa kans in landas is the last post in this thread: http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic40k....hpage=2

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CrimsonFury

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:21 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:04 pm
Posts: 766

Quote (nealhunt @ 04 2003 Nov.,14:47)

Big Gunz: ?I think they are okay for the price of the Big and Uge formations. ?In fact, Uge formations are still the same price as before. ?I would never field them as less than Big, though. ?I have fielded them as Big/Uge, adding enough boyz and nobz to get the mob-up bonus and leader abilities. ?Don't understimate their combined firepower. ?They can be quite shooty.

True, but the new points costs for big gunz formations are identical to blitz brigades. And blitz brigades can also have oddboy upgrades. So you sacrifice 1 big gun, but gain speed, armour + CC abilities.

I agree the last minute changes were annoying, I would have prefer if the list had been left alone or given more time to test, but oh well. The end result doesn't seem too bad IMO.

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nealhunt

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:20 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

I see your point on the BBs, but I think that's about right. Basically, I'd say they are different tools for different jobs.

Gunz get 25% more units. That gives them more shots, and goes a long way toward equalizing assaults. They are infantry, which means they can move through difficult terrain and take advantage of cover. Also, a BB does not have access to any Leader ability or to grots to soak hits, which can each make a big difference.

I certainly wouldn't advise taking a force of mostly Gunzmobz, but they have a place...

especially in any self-respecting Bad Moon Clan!

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CrimsonFury

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:32 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:04 pm
Posts: 766

Quote (nealhunt @ 04 2003 Nov.,17:20)

They are infantry, which means they can move through difficult terrain and take advantage of cover. ?Also, a BB does not have access to any Leader ability or to grots to soak hits, which can each make a big difference.

True, now that infantry have been removed from BB's it makes them more vulnerable, which can make biggunz attractive in some situations.

Also I just remembered another advantage of biggunz is that they can be deployed as garrisons.

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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:35 pm

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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

I found a cool new proxy for Ork SupaStompas:

http://www.dp9.com/Products/d20mechaminis.htm

DP-9's "Brute-class Goblin Coalsuit?"

What do you guys think?

-------------------------------

I'm cross-posting this message to three topics:

1. THE Gargant Discussion -> Epic Armageddon
2. Proxies for Epic miniatures. -> Epic Armageddon
3. Super stompa -> Epic Armageddon

I'd prefer that replies went to the:

THE Gargant Discussion -> Epic Armageddon ...

... topic, but it's really immaterial in the end.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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the_fifth_horseman

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:51 am

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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:35 pm
Posts: 1259

Hi. I'm just in progress of making some new proxies for Sisters of Battle. I have already painted the Seraphim and Battle Sisters, along with the Rhino and Exorcist. They look positively awesome, and they are probably the best proxies I did EVER!

Now I'm working on the character upgrades for these and then I'll do the other types of Sisters.

To all SoB maniacs: the Celestian Superior is based on the Black Library special edition Ephrael Stern from Ephrael Stern & Silas Hand diorama.

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netepic

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:45 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England

Epic 40,000 gets even more of our beautifully detailed models 'de-bigulated'
when we release a Skyray and Orca for the Tau, a Thunderbolt for the
Imperial Navy and a promise of special troop types and characters too.
There have been a few rumours on the 'net about us making a big
Bloodthirster. Well they are all untrue. We are making a MASSIVE
Bloodthirster, which at the moment has an axe which is roughly twice the
height of a Space Marine Dreadnought. I think that counts as MASSIVE, don't
you?

>> That is it for E40k - now I gotta go or I will late for the date :S AGAIN.

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Legion 4

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:40 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

Yes, I just read the NL and I knew sooner or later they'd release the Tau Skyray AAA Vehicle plus I look forward to the Orca. ?At this point, you could have a Tau & Kroot Epic Army, before '07 or '08 ! ?And of course, I look forward to the T/bolt and even more so to the Special Troops and characters. ?I hope F/W continues in this direction, mostly new and unique stuff ... not another version of something we already have too many versions of ! ? :laugh:

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Mojarn Piett

Post subject: Proxies for Epic miniatures.

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:28 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
Posts: 5455
Location: Finland

The only problem I have is that with FW prices for the TAU infantry you'd not only get the army but be bankrupt also. :blues:

The vehicles are not so expensive.

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