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World Eaters 1.1
Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:57 am 
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In notes it says If. In list it says replacement. If it is a replacement it is effectively 2 of the three upgrades for a formation?

Correct. "If taken as a replacement for a Warlord then the Daemon Prince also counts as a
Supreme Commander" means if you decide to take him you don't get the warlord as well. EDITED for confusion purposes
It's designed to be a hurdle. You don't get everything you want basically. Heck you already get a teleporting Khorne DP with Termie retinue  :;): You have to make decisions with the list is my aim. I hope I get it right more often than not.

Are you going with the increased accuracy idea, or just a plain drop?
Until something is finalised with the dreadclaw it'll be the plain drop rules minus the deathwind. I'd prefer the extra hurdle.

Sorry, battlebarge  Its slow and steady everywhere else or can I really do a massive drop turn one?
yes S&S.

I would have thought the cannons of khorne would or should have a 60cm range.
Yeah I'm not entirely sold on what I have for the Cannons. I basically just replaced the name from the BL Hellfire cannons. I would like more feedback on what they should be.

The world eaters bikers should have a FF 5+ as they only have combi bolters.
Doh! Another typo :(

The World Eaters Berserkers seem way to cheap for there 2+cc as with the terminators
Seem and are too cheap needs to be proven to me. I base on stats and adjust for special rules etc. I figured approx 40 for a tactical stand (higher shooting ability, ATSKNF long range AP/AT fp etc) so 28ish for a zerker. You actually have to reach base to base and they aren't infiltrator so not all will reach.

Also the Hellblades seem better suited to 250pts for the 3.
Like I said these are direct copied from Lord I's BL change playtest list. I'm happy to change them though.

The only army that appears that will be able to stand upto this type of army is the Eldar, as basically you can't go CC with a decent eldar force.
Well any fast moving or skimmer army will have the edge IMO. Large number forces like orks may prove too much for them also. But hey, that's what I want to find out from playtesting.  :;):
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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:01 am 
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Quote: (Blish @ 25 Jul. 2009, 00:05 )

The World Eaters Berserkers seem way to cheap for there 2+cc as with the terminators.

I really do not want another 10+ pages on this discussion.

They cannot shoot, they foot-slog-it across a table, you cannot 100% rely on them to hold an objective with a blast marker on turn 3 and 4, and they have to pay for their transports. Their leader has been downgraded, and they can only have 3 upgrades (if they want a Greater Daemon, they cannot take transports).

Yes that have fearless but that is it. It is not like they have a cc2+ and an extra attack.

So really dude, how much more expensive should these guys be and what is your determination based on? I know it is just an opinion, but it is not helpful without reasonings or a solution.

:smile:

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:07 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 25 Jul. 2009, 01:57 )

In notes it says If. In list it says replacement. If it is a replacement it is effectively 2 of the three upgrades for a formation?

Correct. "If taken as a replacement" means if you decide to take him and not upgrade the Warlord you get wings....

It's designed to be a hurdle. You don't get everything you want basically. Heck you already get a teleporting Khorne DP with Termie retinue  :;): You have to make decisions with the list is my aim. I hope I get it right more often than not.

Dobbsy

There is no way this is evident in the list.

So if you take him in place of a Warlord, he is a footslogger.

If you do not replace the warlord (not currently an option on the last page), you have to (?) take the wings?

My head hurts.   :sus:

This definitely needs to be re-written if the above is correct.




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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:10 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 25 Jul. 2009, 01:57 )

Also the Hellblades seem better suited to 250pts for the 3.

Like I said these are direct copied from Lord I's BL change playtest list. I'm happy to change them though.

Noo!!

Soon you will have to play 5000 point games just to get 8-10 activations with this force.

If they go up in Black Legion, then yes, otherwise, there should be no difference.




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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:23 am 
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Dobbsy

You able to get an updated 'change document' up with all the changes and typos corrected? Just so people don't have to go through the whole thread to find the changes. Also easier for an opponent to access the rules in one document.

Otherwise I will get one up when I get some time today.

Cheers...

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:49 am 
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Please don't.

I'm trying to keep the confusion down but you'll have to be patient. I will see to the changes.
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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:31 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 25 Jul. 2009, 02:49 )

Please don't.

I'm trying to keep the confusion down

Dude

I am just confused reading this list. A change document would fix this.

I will wait for your one then. It just makes play testing hard when the rules on the printout are not what they are supposed to be. Opponents especially do not want to have a look at the net to find out the rule changes when you are starting a game.

I can do my own change docs for my games. I just do not think others on here are at all encouraged to try the list when as soon as the update is released it has to be immediately changed with typos, errors and units that are undecided.

Just a thought...

:smile:

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:40 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 25 Jul. 2009, 01:57 )

In notes it says If. In list it says replacement. If it is a replacement it is effectively 2 of the three upgrades for a formation?

Correct. "If taken as a replacement" means if you decide to take him and not upgrade the Warlord you get wings....

It's designed to be a hurdle. You don't get everything you want basically. Heck you already get a teleporting Khorne DP with Termie retinue  :;): You have to make decisions with the list is my aim. I hope I get it right more often than not.

Also

Re-reading this again, this makes no sense.

Why does a DP with wings not have the ability to be a SC?

What happened to diversity?

Why the hate on the wings? Someone with wings cannot think straight in a combat?

There is really no reason to have this restriction.

I am totally lost on this one dude. Other than taking a DP to replace a Warlord, what exactly are my other options? Is it possible now to have a DP and a Warlord in the same army?

Can a DP with wings teleport?

Why does it need a price difference between the wings and the foot-slogger?

Also, really this version is no longer 1.1 and should be titled at least as V1.1.1

:)




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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:57 am 
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I just do not think others on here are at all encouraged to try the list when as soon as the update is released it has to be immediately changed with typos, errors and units that are undecided.

Mate, just have a bit of patience. You just seem to want everything done right this second.
I'm sorting things out with this list. Also remember this is the first list I have attempted to write so the process is a little less organised as you would seem to like. However, you posting another version isn't necessary and I must say a little irritating (do it for yourself by all means). I understand people don't want to look at the net, but they also understand that not everything can be done immediately. I have a real life to deal with and I'm not at the pc every second of the day. Please just relax and WAIT.

The DP wings thing was just a funny comment using the red bull commercial. Sorry you got confused by it. I've edited what was written to remove confusion.

However, how is "If taken as a replacement for a Warlord then the Daemon Prince also counts as a Supreme Commander" and "Replace the unit in the formation that includes the World Eaters Warlord character with a Khorne Daemon Prince unit" confusing. That confuses me.

Is it that it says "a Supreme Commander" not "thesupreme commander"?

As to undecided units play as they are until they get a change. It's not rocket science.

Also, really this version is no longer 1.1 and should be titled at least as V1.1.1
Well I never actually released 1.1 as a final document is where you're confused. it was a rough to try and iron out errors. You took it as complete for some reason.





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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:06 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 25 Jul. 2009, 02:10 )

Quote: (Dobbsy @ 25 Jul. 2009, 01:57 )

Also the Hellblades seem better suited to 250pts for the 3.

Like I said these are direct copied from Lord I's BL change playtest list. I'm happy to change them though.

Noo!!

Soon you will have to play 5000 point games just to get 8-10 activations with this force.

If they go up in Black Legion, then yes, otherwise, there should be no difference.

I would prefer them to be cheap as well - but they then can't keep those stats.
I got to play half a vassel game last night where only the airforce really came into play and it was frightening. They are so much better than thunderbolts or fighta bombers who have to close to 15cm range. Really the weapon should be twin (AP3+/AT5+/AA4+) or 15cm range, maybe with a forward instead of fixed forward arc.

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:51 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 25 Jul. 2009, 06:57 )

Mate, just have a bit of patience. You just seem to want everything done right this second. I'm sorting things out with this list. Also remember this is the first list I have attempted to write so the process is a little less organised as you would seem to like. However, you posting another version isn't necessary and I must say a little irritating (do it for yourself by all means).

Don't worry dude

It was never another version, it was just a fix up of yours, to help you and others out.

Good luck with your list. Glad to see that I have helped where I can up to this point.




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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:17 am 
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Good luck with your list. Glad to see that I have helped where I can up to this point


Like I said mate, write the changes up for yourself. I'll sort out the main one  :;):

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:30 pm 
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Well to repeat myself i used this stats in my IronWarriors armylist for the Cannon of Khorne. They are based on the stats and descriptions in SM/TL because no Apocalypse datasheet exist for them.

Chaos Cannon of Khorne (Khorne)
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 15cm 4+ 6+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Warpcannon 30cm MW2+ Titan Killer(1), Slow-firing

Notes: Invulnerable Save, Fearless.

Althoug i would really like to the Tower of Skulls and Doom Blaster in this list because they exist in Wh40k and have stats in Apocalypse.
Andi know i repeat my self ad nauseam but i think the concept of the Slaughterfiend is just cool and should be included  :)
If not in a World Eaters armylist, where else should this units be represented?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:51 am 
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I'm more than happy to use those stats for the cannon BL.

Is everyone else ok with them?

On the Tower and such, as I said for now at least they are essentially the assault engines. Please just trial what is in the 1.1 list first BL. I change it if the need for them arises.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: World Eaters 1.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:01 am 
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It isn't about "hmm this army lacks something, lets look at Wh40k for a new unit to add" It's more like "this unit exists in Wh40k, so where can i use it in Epic?".




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