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The new Blood Rage....
frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:57 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 13 Jul. 2009, 11:30 )

It's written, not to fill every piece of fluff out there but to give a brief history of the chapter/legion.

Fair enough

I just thought that the 6 words of "...but called themselves the War Hounds" would have been an easy and flavourful inclusion.

Oh well. Maybe if it becomes a minidex, it can be worked in   :tongue:

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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 13 Jul. 2009, 11:20 )

Is the destroyer like an Imp Guard Tank Destroyer with claws or more like a Cauldron of Blood? Still trying to work this one out.  

anyone?

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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:55 pm 
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V1.1 3.0 World Eater Musings

Bloodlord: Perhaps this should be a free option that is allowed to be taken in any World Eater Retinue or World Eater Terminator Retinue. If a World Eater Terminator unit is taken, then the Bloodlod must go in this unit. - This would solve the issue of not being able to gain a SC if you do not take a terminator unit.

Blood Slaughterer: Is my understanding incorrect that this was for a Daemonworld force? Would it not be feasible to have the defiler as an option in this list either in place of the Slaughterer or alongside it?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:58 pm 
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I believe the 'Destroyer' is this list's name for a Khorne-blessed Defiler ; what with the proliferation of Khorne Daemon Engines I'm not convinced that a Khornate Defiler variant is nessesary... just have the normal Defiler in there?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:19 am 
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0-1 Warlord Unit containing a Bloodlord gains the Supreme Commander ability - does this mean that if I choose not to take a terminator unit, I cannot elect to take a supreme commander? Why would this be the case? IMO, a SC should be able to be taken in a normal World Eater Berserker unit as standard.

0-1 Khorne Daemon Prince: as warlord above

Yep that's a typo. berserkers get the bloodlord too. ta.

Feral Titan: Any chance on taking these as a unit of two for 600 points (due to rarity) rather than just as a unit of 1?
I will be following the BL list's lead here. If it gets changed to 2 I will make that change too.

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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:21 am 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 13 Jul. 2009, 23:58 )

I believe the 'Destroyer' is this list's name for a Khorne-blessed Defiler ; what with the proliferation of Khorne Daemon Engines I'm not convinced that a Khornate Defiler variant is nessesary... just have the normal Defiler in there?

:agree:

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am 
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2.0 World Eater Unit Observations

Iniatial Observations:

World Eaters Juggernauts should have Berserk?  (it's not there)

I'm toying with the idea of making them the same as normal juggers. May change the name to just Juggernauts

Land Raider unit needs to change Chosen for Terminator in the following text: "Transport: one Chosen unit or two Berserker units"
Typo! consider it changed.

Dreadclaw Assault Pods: A few 's' need to be removed or added to have these plurals read correctly - Notes: Planet fall, Transport (may carry one formation that includes only World Eaters Berserker, World Eaters Terminators,...and World Eaters Dreadnought units
done

Stalker: This is so not World Eater material (4xAA6+) yet if you are comitted to keep it, there is not much I can do.
I would like to know what others think about this being in the list?
Personally for fluff, I am not going to have it included in our games and will present a list to all my players with this excluded.
I hear foot stamping going on.... Would you like a lollipop little boy?  :vD  Sreiously though see my next comment below....


World Eater Navy: World Eaters with 3 aircraft choices. This is a mistake in my opinion. This is supposed to be a World Eater weakness. Effectively they have the same options (and more) than other armies, and this is a warband army. Personally I am going to only consider 1 choice in the force which I will have our group decide on.
Again, the World Eaters will have access to these things regardless. The units are there for A/ a sense of fullness and B/other people to build a warband as they see fit. If you prefer to hamstring yourself go for it.  :;):

I believe the 'Destroyer' is this list's name for a Khorne-blessed Defiler ; what with the proliferation of Khorne Daemon Engines I'm not convinced that a Khornate Defiler variant is nessesary... just have the normal Defiler in there?
This can be done if people prefer. I chose the destroyer because it's more fluffy and it's less shooty which I thought people preferred in a WE list....

Blood Slaughterer: Is my understanding incorrect that this was for a Daemonworld force? Would it not be feasible to have the defiler as an option in this list either in place of the Slaughterer or alongside it?
Yep totally feasible. What does everyone think? I'm happy to remove it if people prefer.

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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:25 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 14 Jul. 2009, 00:35 )

2.0 World Eater Unit Observations

Iniatial Observations:

World Eaters Juggernauts should have Berserk?  (it's not there)

I'm toying with the idea of making them the same as normal juggers. May change the name to just Juggernauts

Morgan and I (Morgan mostly) came up with some ideas for Juggers.

I will post these as a separate Project thread tonight when I get 10 mins to write it up.

We believe it is more in line with what Juggers are supposed to be. I think you will like it.

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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:31 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 14 Jul. 2009, 00:35 )

I hear foot stamping going on.... Would you like a lollipop little boy?  :vD  

Yep

This and the Nid list are two of my favourites so I want them right - hence why I am so active on both of them.

At the end of the day, (like others have done for other forces), I may produce an alternate list as there are a few things (such as the navy and stalker), that I believe are going in the wrong direction. They may be ok for a Khorne list, but IMO, not a World Eater list.

Always happy to take on a champion role for this list when/if you are happy to have someone else add their direction to it.

Cheers...

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:36 am 
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I might like it, unfortunately I'm not keen on having them different to the BL Juggernauts. Somethings have to be kept the same or confusion across lists can occur. I think you'll find this is a standard list design principle. House rules, are I'm sure, common in most play groups.  

That said, I'm always happy to go with consensus or the Epic Rules Comittee decisions.... I'm pretty open to suggestions.

This and the Nid list are two of my favourites so I want them right

Define "right". You may be arguing for ever then and you may be sorely disappointed when you don't get what you want. The list isn't written for one person alone. Small issues like the stalker and navy can easily be left out of your own army lists when you play, but others may like those units in their lists - I'm trying to make this list tournament friendly so some compromise is necessary, hence why I'm writing for everyone.  :;):

I may produce an alternate list as there are a few things (such as the navy and stalker), that I believe are going in the wrong direction
Feel free to do so mate. You might be better off because as I mentioned I'm not writing the list for one person. Sorry you're not happy with the way things are going. Hope yours works out for you.

Cheers
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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:01 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 14 Jul. 2009, 02:36 )

- I'm trying to make this list tournament friendly so some compromise is necessary, hence why I'm writing for everyone.  :;):

Tournament friendly does not mean that the list needs to be balanced to come across every instance. Like the Nid list, it is good to have a weakness. I feel you are going totally against the fluff by trying to give the World Eaters an answer to everything that they may come up against.

Exactly how many sources beyond the White Dwarf article and the newly aquired Lexicanum have you referred to Dobbsy? I would like to know as I have offerd you everything I have and you appear to ignore me. This is one thing that really frustrates me to no end.

Sorry you're not happy with the way things are going. Hope yours works out for you.


No need to be like that dude. Happy to help out but you have to want the help rather than ignore and pick and chose what you want. As I see it, the only replies you are getting are from 3-5 people and you appear to ignore some of the important ideas along the way. How many of these people have actually played with the list? I have for one.

I know it may be hard to be a champion for such a list, but it needs to be in the hands of people that have a passion for the list and will actually play test it to understand the changes he/she is making and not rely alone on the reports of games from others.  

So what am I left with, but to try and produce a modified list to gain feedback and possibly acceptance.

You have not made it easy IMO, that's all.

You still have my suppoort, as at the end of the day, I do want a list out there for everyone to enjoy. I would just like it to be true to the fluff, that is always my goal, and probably the biggest gripe I have with lists - and what get's me into trouble I guess.

Note: The things I do like is the addition of the Legionaires and the combined formations of termies and normal trooppers. These were awesome additions IMO. See, I am positive as well as being constructive.




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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:41 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 14 Jul. 2009, 02:36 )

Define "right".

True to the fluff behind the army list




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:23 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 13 Jul. 2009, 11:51 )

Also, you appear to want to rely on it? How can you rely on a 2 in 6 chance? Surley you are not going to always want to charge out into the open to reach an enemy that may be on the other side of the table? Surely you would rather make a triple or double move to get into a strategic position for a next round charge?

I'd love it for my marines. I get to engage instead of firing (pretty useless), marshalling (sometimes good), or taking one move. Big boost for an in your face force.

I don't disagree with the rule, we just clearly have different ideas as to how good it is!

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frogbear
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:25 am 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 14 Jul. 2009, 11:23 )

I don't disagree with the rule, we just clearly have different ideas as to how good it is!

We may have to take this to vassal and fight it out  

:tongue:

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The new Blood Rage....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:39 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 14 Jul. 2009, 02:36 )

I might like it, unfortunately I'm not keen on having them different to the BL Juggernauts.

In what other list do juggers feature?

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