But the real stats are way too over-powered for balanced standard sized tournament play. If you only want to use them properly in scenarios fine, go ahead - but having a reduced version in the tournament list is popular and seems reasonable to me - why so strongly insist those that want it should be prevented? Just don't use it that way yourself.

I fail to see why having them being rare should prevent them being in a list? They do exist, why can they not fight? They're not that rare anyway - there's even one particular titan legion that consists of a dozen of them! Also Imperator Titans are many times more common than Odinati or C'tan - if we follow your logic these would have to be banned much sooner.

The consensus opinion on the Mega and the Imperator with the book stats were 1200-1400 for the Mega and 1600-1800 for the Imperator.  There were actually quite a few games with each reported on the old boards.  That's still a pretty big spread (15+% difference) but nearly everyone agreed that was the right ballpark.  For the purposes of scenario design, 1300 should be accurate enough.

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Neal

Your sarcasm is not helpful, and is not appreciated.

This is epic. Leave 40k rules where they are. Imperators should be _scary_. Downgrading them is precisely wrong move. If nothing else they should have been beefed up instead of downgraded.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It's possible I've missed or forgotten some, but I can't think of a single report that actively tried to abuse the presence of the Imperator in the GT scenario.  I don't think serious min-max attempts have been explored.

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The Mega is a problem, as we've discussed.  It's always been noticeably inferior to the Imperator and smaller.  Scaling it with the other gargants puts it on par and/or larger.  That just feels wrong to me.

However, more important than my personal hangups based on rather old background material and fluff, I still have the serious doubts I described above about what you can really do with a ~1200 point WE in the GT scenario.

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Neal

It's possible I've missed or forgotten some, but I can't think of a single report that actively tried to abuse the presence of the Imperator in the GT scenario.  I don't think serious min-max attempts have been explored.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I never even try to kill Warlord Titans, I just put a BM on them then go after the rest of the army.

I'd probably do the same with Emperors/Mega Gargants.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Is that bonus in protecting their BTS goal not (somewhat?) compensated for by having 1250pts of your army sucked up by a single formation, with all the attendant drawbacks that come along with that?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

They don't make sense to exist in tournament scenarios. Those things are frigging rare and are SUPPOSED to be frigging powerful.

As it is the "Imperator" in the AMTL list isn't Imperator at all! REAL Imperator wouldn't be so wimpy. It would be LOT more powerful and to hell whether it's good for tournament scenario. If it isn't it's just one more indicator it shouldn't be included in tournament scenario anyway.

If you want to have beefed up warlord fine but atleast don't try to pretend it's Imperator because it most certainly isn't. It's some new titan(as if we need new titans) between warlord and Imperator.

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www.tneva.net

My concern is that when an imperator is standing in the enemies half, within range of one objective they are down to 2 possible objectives unless they take on the Imperator. If I can find someone to play I may even give it a go before my titan hits ebay.

(Sorry for continuing this thread hi-jack Neal!)

Er... shouldn't all this Imperator Titan stuff be discussed in the AMTL section?

I wanna read about Orks here!  WAAAGH!!!

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

The "real" imperator is, to me, the one represented by the current background, i.e. 12DC.

I have no interest in playing an Epic game that doesn't represent the current 40k universe.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

I will answer in a new thread.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

ive used my imperator a total of twice in casual games. while it did cool things, it was far from broken. i used it at the last gamesday in a mega battle against moscovian, and it took 2 rounds of firing from it to destroy bill's tormentor titan. granted the only thing i was shooting was the defense laser and the arm mount weapons.

i think any argument that the mega shouldnt be included in some list is moot. the imperator has stats, they might be watered down, they might not be, but in the end the imperator is in, so the mega should most definately be in.

looking at the epic community i can see that we are a strong group that values the game as a whole. why would we want to restrict a model we already have? especially as we lose models from FW and gain little support from GW. alot of people have the mega gargant model, i have 2 imperators now, and if i started OGBM i would definatly buy a mega gargant and expect to be able to field it. make it pricey, make it inflexible, make it fit the game however you can, just let me run the damn thing!